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Underdog

от T0dd, 8 апреля 2011 г.

Сообщений: 43

Язык: English

tommjames (Показать профиль) 8 апреля 2011 г., 17:45:57

Another possibility from Benson's dictionary is "malavantaĝulo".

qwertz (Показать профиль) 8 апреля 2011 г., 18:50:15

Chainy:
Anyway, even if it is ok grammatically, it still doesn't seem to convey exactly the sense of 'underdog' as there is sometimes only a very small difference between the favourite and the underdog, ...
malfavorato? kontraŭfavorato? (favorato is listed at reta-vortaro.de)

horsto (Показать профиль) 8 апреля 2011 г., 23:07:49

erinja:I wouldn't say that an underdog is a "senŝanculo", since they do have a chance, it's just a very small one.
Perhaps etŝanculo is really better. But, of course, if you say that somebody has no chance that doesn't really mean that he has no chance, there is always a small chance. Therefore I think senŝanculo is not completely wrong.

erinja (Показать профиль) 9 апреля 2011 г., 0:46:53

In English we don't say that an underdog has no chance. Being an underdog means only that you are unlikely to win.

"No chance" -- we would probably call that a lost cause rather than an underdog.

ceigered (Показать профиль) 9 апреля 2011 г., 5:27:17

In fact, underdogs are often thought of maybe being perfectly capable of winning, but unable due to being lower on a heirarchy. So they are not incapable or helpless, but rather lacking the privelages or power that comes from being higher up in the heirarchy, e.g. a very popular sports team with heaps of money to put towards training and a stadium, a political party that's historically always been popular even if their policy sucks, or someone in a court case trying to win against the big bad company.

In storytelling, I guess the idea is that no one expects the underdog to win, but they win anyway with their wonderful underdogness.

Kirilo81 (Показать профиль) 9 апреля 2011 г., 15:17:27

T0dd:Now that I think about it again, recalling that sub has the non-spatial meaning of insufficiency, as well as its primary spatial meaning, I suppose subŝanculo is also possible.
Could you give some examples? I just know non-spatial sub- with the sence of "hiddenly, illegally" (subaŭskulti, subaĉeti).

darkweasel (Показать профиль) 9 апреля 2011 г., 15:58:09

Kirilo81:
T0dd:Now that I think about it again, recalling that sub has the non-spatial meaning of insufficiency, as well as its primary spatial meaning, I suppose subŝanculo is also possible.
Could you give some examples? I just know non-spatial sub- with the sence of "hiddenly, illegally" (subaŭskulti, subaĉeti).
We recently mentioned subtaksi on this forum.

horsto (Показать профиль) 9 апреля 2011 г., 20:35:18

erinja:In English we don't say that an underdog has no chance. Being an underdog means only that you are unlikely to win.
I'm wondering about your argument. Are you saying that because you don't say that in english it's not possible to use it in Esperanto?

As I wrote, I understand no chance in the sence of almost no chance.

The problem I have with etŝanculo is, that for example at the beginning of a season almost every team has only small chances to win the championchip, except perhaps some teams that often win.

Perhaps the idea of T0dd is the best, subŝanculo, or perhaps malsamŝanculo.

darkweasel (Показать профиль) 9 апреля 2011 г., 20:37:34

horsto:malsamŝanculo
... can be someone who has higher chances than others as well.

horsto (Показать профиль) 9 апреля 2011 г., 20:39:20

darkweasel:
horsto:malsamŝanculo
... can be someone who has higher chances than others as well.
Yes, of course. But it should be clear from the context.

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