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Underdog

viết bởi T0dd, Ngày 08 tháng 4 năm 2011

Tin nhắn: 43

Nội dung: English

tommjames (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 17:45:57 Ngày 08 tháng 4 năm 2011

Another possibility from Benson's dictionary is "malavantaĝulo".

qwertz (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 18:50:15 Ngày 08 tháng 4 năm 2011

Chainy:
Anyway, even if it is ok grammatically, it still doesn't seem to convey exactly the sense of 'underdog' as there is sometimes only a very small difference between the favourite and the underdog, ...
malfavorato? kontraŭfavorato? (favorato is listed at reta-vortaro.de)

horsto (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 23:07:49 Ngày 08 tháng 4 năm 2011

erinja:I wouldn't say that an underdog is a "senŝanculo", since they do have a chance, it's just a very small one.
Perhaps etŝanculo is really better. But, of course, if you say that somebody has no chance that doesn't really mean that he has no chance, there is always a small chance. Therefore I think senŝanculo is not completely wrong.

erinja (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 00:46:53 Ngày 09 tháng 4 năm 2011

In English we don't say that an underdog has no chance. Being an underdog means only that you are unlikely to win.

"No chance" -- we would probably call that a lost cause rather than an underdog.

ceigered (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 05:27:17 Ngày 09 tháng 4 năm 2011

In fact, underdogs are often thought of maybe being perfectly capable of winning, but unable due to being lower on a heirarchy. So they are not incapable or helpless, but rather lacking the privelages or power that comes from being higher up in the heirarchy, e.g. a very popular sports team with heaps of money to put towards training and a stadium, a political party that's historically always been popular even if their policy sucks, or someone in a court case trying to win against the big bad company.

In storytelling, I guess the idea is that no one expects the underdog to win, but they win anyway with their wonderful underdogness.

Kirilo81 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 15:17:27 Ngày 09 tháng 4 năm 2011

T0dd:Now that I think about it again, recalling that sub has the non-spatial meaning of insufficiency, as well as its primary spatial meaning, I suppose subŝanculo is also possible.
Could you give some examples? I just know non-spatial sub- with the sence of "hiddenly, illegally" (subaŭskulti, subaĉeti).

darkweasel (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 15:58:09 Ngày 09 tháng 4 năm 2011

Kirilo81:
T0dd:Now that I think about it again, recalling that sub has the non-spatial meaning of insufficiency, as well as its primary spatial meaning, I suppose subŝanculo is also possible.
Could you give some examples? I just know non-spatial sub- with the sence of "hiddenly, illegally" (subaŭskulti, subaĉeti).
We recently mentioned subtaksi on this forum.

horsto (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:35:18 Ngày 09 tháng 4 năm 2011

erinja:In English we don't say that an underdog has no chance. Being an underdog means only that you are unlikely to win.
I'm wondering about your argument. Are you saying that because you don't say that in english it's not possible to use it in Esperanto?

As I wrote, I understand no chance in the sence of almost no chance.

The problem I have with etŝanculo is, that for example at the beginning of a season almost every team has only small chances to win the championchip, except perhaps some teams that often win.

Perhaps the idea of T0dd is the best, subŝanculo, or perhaps malsamŝanculo.

darkweasel (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:37:34 Ngày 09 tháng 4 năm 2011

horsto:malsamŝanculo
... can be someone who has higher chances than others as well.

horsto (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 20:39:20 Ngày 09 tháng 4 năm 2011

darkweasel:
horsto:malsamŝanculo
... can be someone who has higher chances than others as well.
Yes, of course. But it should be clear from the context.

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