Finishing on that topic, I know this sounds silly, but for a simulation of what police must do on-the-spot, try SWAT 4, a PC game, and the last of its series before Sierra closed down. It very well illustrates what a minor, yet incorrect decision could do to an entire operation. Misidentifying targets due to bad lighting? A shot hostage. Not shooting a hostile when you're meant to because you're sure they'll drop their weapon? A dead officer. Not taser/pepper spraying an on-site civilian because you don't see them as a threat? They could pull out a gun in the next second. With the expansion pack and on Elite difficulty, a disarmed hostile could find a new weapon if you let them go for a second and killing isn't an option as you'll fail the mission.

It does drive home the point that it's not very easy work that must unfortunately be done even if there's a chance of failure. Mind you, it's not a terribly realistic game in some cases, as you could literally taser someone indefinitely in it and they'd be right as rain after a couple of seconds. Anyway, getting beside the point.

ceigered:

geo63:Example: American helicopter pilots shoot unarmed civilians in Iraque - all of this can be watched on video if you do not believe me. Perhaps they should land, get out of their machines, come to those civilians and ask politely:

Excuse us, we are fighting war around here - are you a threat, can we kill you?

Instead they just fire a rocket or machine gun and say: Die bastard, die.

Yes, very humane...

No further comment.

This is a completely different situation, and a different problem. This is the army being a bunch of trigger happy idiots really. Of course, it's also related to the fact that superiors don't pay enough attention to the actions of people on the frontlines, so there was no one to go "hey, hold on, they might be civilians".
Other complications include bad intel (I believe in those cases they thought it was a gang of combatants and had no idea that journalists were in the area), and bad technology (they misidentified cameras as RPGs).

They were complete idiots. They shouldn't even be there. From reports of other eyewitnesses the Americans were shooting everything that moved - shoot first, ask questions later. I am not a trained military but I can see almost right away that they were civilians, not fighters. Only one with a RPG? And the others unarmed, gathered in the street, talking...not crawling in shadows... Is that the way any fighter behaves. And then a van with two children... taken to battle - only an idiot could think that way. It reminds me of a movie scene: two American soldiers during WW2 are walking on a battle field. From a trench pops up a German soldier with hands up and cries: Bitte, bitte, nicht schießen! (please, please, don't shoot). The American shoots him dead and ask his camarade - I wonder what bitte means. They walk away.

I think it's time to move away from political discussions and back to Esperanto.

Soldiers sometimes do awful things. Policemen sometimes do awful things. Accountants, street sweepers, and Esperanto speakers sometimes do awful things. Let's just agree that lots of bad stuff happens in the world. There are bad people in every country, and good people in every country. People do wonderful things for people that they can't communicate with, and they sometimes do horrible things to people they can't communicate with. Bad and good things that happen are not always related to the language problem.

And if anyone on this forum would like to continue to trash Canadian and American soldiers and police, I suggest that you take it to private messages, so the rest of this forum can go back to talking about Esperanto.

Wow, anyone want to talk with me about my great new idea for reforming Esperanto?
[kidding!!!]

erinja:
Wow, anyone want to talk with me about my great new idea for reforming Esperanto?
[kidding!!!]

Sure! Be sure not to forget getting rid of the accusative, the definite article, the accented letters and the sound ĥ!

darkweasel:

erinja:
Wow, anyone want to talk with me about my great new idea for reforming Esperanto?
[kidding!!!]

Sure! Be sure not to forget getting rid of the accusative, the definite article, the accented letters and the sound ĥ!

This is great!!!1! We should also get rid of all the non-English roots so that it is easier to learn.

adrideo:

darkweasel:

erinja:
Wow, anyone want to talk with me about my great new idea for reforming Esperanto?
[kidding!!!]

Sure! Be sure not to forget getting rid of the accusative, the definite article, the accented letters and the sound ĥ!

This is great!!!1! We should also get rid of all the non-English roots so that it is easier to learn.

absolute. diz bias verie guda ideo. aj alrede startis traji diz. du ju vantas kontinui?

darkweasel:

erinja:
Wow, anyone want to talk with me about my great new idea for reforming Esperanto?
[kidding!!!]

Sure! Be sure not to forget getting rid of the accusative, the definite article, the accented letters and the sound ĥ!

Yes, and introduce nonfonetic writing system, more vovels, more irregular verbs and thousands of idioms - it would be like English then. Hey, let's call English Esperanto - then no reforming will be necessary, all reforms included.

geo63:

darkweasel:

erinja:
Wow, anyone want to talk with me about my great new idea for reforming Esperanto?
[kidding!!!]

Sure! Be sure not to forget getting rid of the accusative, the definite article, the accented letters and the sound ĥ!

Yes, and introduce nonfonetic writing system, more vovels, more irregular verbs and thousands of idioms - it would be like English then. Hey, let's call English Esperanto - then no reforming will be necessary, all reforms included.

Wow! You've just come to the ultimate Esperanto reform! Good job!
(ŭaŭ! vi ĵus kamis tu altimejta reformo de esperanto! gude duita!)

(Somehow reminds me of Karaj papo kaj mamo 1, 2, Dira sano.)

Awh, I actually like ĥ

razlem:Awh, I actually like ĥ

Me too. This leter is almost extinct, but sometimes it can be useful.

aĥajano, Aĥilo, ĥiragro, ĥano, ĥasido, ĥedero, ĥina, ĥondrilo, ĥolesterolo, ĥoralo