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My GPS Will Speak Esperanto

od NJ Esperantist, 16 kwietnia 2011

Wpisy: 116

Język: English

Chainy (Pokaż profil) 25 kwietnia 2011, 10:39:09

darkweasel:Is tenu vin dekstre internationally comprehensible? That's how I'd say it in German.
I would say that it is. It's just like saying 'keep to the right'. As in move forward towards the right along the same road...

Miland (Pokaż profil) 25 kwietnia 2011, 12:11:36

darkweasel:tenu vin dekstre
+1

sudanglo (Pokaż profil) 25 kwietnia 2011, 20:59:45

'Tenu vin dekstre' would mean keep to the right.

It would not necessarily mean bear right, which involves a change of direction.

At least add an 'n' - 'tenu vin dekstren'.

In the Esperanto discussion, someone unearthed from NPIV 'ĝirblinkilo' (look under 'blinko') - being the flashing light on modern cars used to indicate change of direction.

darkweasel (Pokaż profil) 25 kwietnia 2011, 22:50:21

Well, in a case like the one in the attached image, what else can be the consequence of "keeping to the right" apart from changing the direction?

ceigered (Pokaż profil) 26 kwietnia 2011, 08:43:33

Well, I can imagine that there are cases where you'd want to avoid confusing "keep left" (I'm Australian, remember?) and "turn left", if they want to to stay to the left of a sign which tells you this but don't necessarily need you to turn off the road.

I still don't get the trauma over "bear". I'm not a motorist myself but I asked around and I don't think anyone here in Australia really says "bear left/right", only "turn left/right". I don't get why translating "bear" is so important when you could translate "turn" easily with "turniĝu/turnu vin ktp".

In fact, in what english speaking countries do people say "bear left/right"? Is it America and Britain? Because I think I've only heard it once in a rally car racing game, and never on an Australian tomtom.

sudanglo (Pokaż profil) 26 kwietnia 2011, 10:15:12

That looks like a Motorway exit road in your diagram Dark Weasel. Forlasu la aŭto-ŝoseon je la venonta eliro dekstren.

The distinction, we are trying to express here Ceiger (because of the peculiar geometry of road junctions in certain cases) is between taking a new road and staying on the same one when it bears (kurbiĝas) left/right.

While we are on the subject, how would you express 'No U-turn', or 'make a U-turn'?

darkweasel (Pokaż profil) 26 kwietnia 2011, 11:12:37

Is this example from Vienna approximately what we're talking about? As you can see, this road (the one closest to the railway track) forks twice - and here, in my opinion, tenu vin (mal)dekstre is a good expression to tell the driver if they should take the left or right road.

edit: Aerial view of the same situation

Concerning U-turns, what about turniĝu kontraŭadirekten?

ceigered (Pokaż profil) 26 kwietnia 2011, 11:55:48

sudanglo:The distinction, we are trying to express here Ceiger (because of the peculiar geometry of road junctions in certain cases) is between taking a new road and staying on the same one when it bears (kurbiĝas) left/right.
Wouldn't you just say "stay on the same road", and if it's not clear at all then go ahead with "turn right/left"?

T0dd (Pokaż profil) 26 kwietnia 2011, 12:48:56

ceigered:
sudanglo:The distinction, we are trying to express here Ceiger (because of the peculiar geometry of road junctions in certain cases) is between taking a new road and staying on the same one when it bears (kurbiĝas) left/right.
Wouldn't you just say "stay on the same road", and if it's not clear at all then go ahead with "turn right/left"?
There can be situations where "bear right" and "turn right" would call for different actions. For example, there can be an intersection where the road forks, a bit left and a bit right, and there's an additional road that comes to the intersection at 90 degrees. "Turn right" would mean to take that latter road, whereas "bear right" would mean to take the forking road on the right side. The word appears to be related to the nautical term "bearing", which simply means direction, so "bear right" simply means to head in a rightward direction.

The terms "bear" and "turn" are to some extent vague. There's no defined angle after which bearing right becomes turning right, but it is certainly possible to go in a rightward direction without executing what we'd normally think of as a "turn".

I think, however, that "keep to the right" or "stay right", would also do the job.

There appears to have been quite a bit of semantic drift in the verb ĝiri between my older edition of PIV and NPIV. The more recent definition, as quoted by sudanglo, is too vague to exclude actual turning. "Ŝanĝi la direkton de veturilo" might refer to anything from a slight arc to a hairpin turn. "Bear" is always more restricted in scope. Moreover, to the extent that ĝirejo and the earlier PIV definition carry any sort of semantic residue, the connotation of ĝiri would still be a sharp turn. In any case, I wouldn't use it for "bear", for the same reason I wouldn't use "turni"; its meaning is too broad for this usage.

ceigered (Pokaż profil) 26 kwietnia 2011, 16:06:29

I understand what sort of cases you could have turn and bear used in comparison to each other, but I don't see why "bear" is necessary when you can tell them to stay on the road - otherwise it's like the tomtom's telling the driver everything to do lango.gif.

"Keep foot on accelerator, but not too much, and of course take your foot off if you have to brake"
5 secs later
"Keep foot on accelerator, but not too much, and of course take your foot off if you have to brake"
5 secs later.....

okulumo.gif

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