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Beating a dead horse - helpful changes to Eo

de chicago1, 13 mai 2011

Contribuții/Mesaje: 88

Limbă: English

tommjames (Arată profil) 15 mai 2011, 10:18:15

ceigered:It's just not polite
I'm not saying it's fine to insult people just because the insult is true. But I don't see any insult here, just calling it how it is. He knows very well what he's doing, and what the likely responses are going to be.

And identifying a provocateur can be useful; it helps people who might otherwise have wasted their time engaging with the nonsense to avoid doing so.

ceigered:Wiktionary doesn't list "troll" as pejorative or coarse (even if it should), but it doesn't list it as a term of endearment or compliment either.
Then it's neutral. As I said.. simple statement of fact.

ceigered (Arată profil) 15 mai 2011, 10:23:37

Yeah. Calling fat people fat is also a simple statement of fat. It's not nice though, and that's my argument here. Sure, there's a thin line between being anally politically correct and having correct concern about something, and I'd like to think in this case I'm in the latter category and am promoting a reasonable case for respecting others even if they lack the social finesse of the elite. (Getting people to shut up doesn't require the name calling anyway, there's better ways to offend someone to the point of making them a mute...)

tommjames (Arată profil) 15 mai 2011, 10:48:50

ciegered:Yeah. Calling fat people fat is also a simple statement of fat. It's not nice though, and that's my argument here.
"Fat" is just a description. Whether or not it is insulting depends on the context. The same goes for "troll".

The context here is that the OP made a deliberately antagonistic post in order to illicit a certain response for his own self amusement ("I'm a fan of painting a target on my back"). I don't think you need overly concern yourself with his precious feelings when his actions are correctly categorised.

ceigered (Arată profil) 15 mai 2011, 11:20:22

tommjames:
The context here is that the OP made a deliberately antagonistic post in order to illicit a certain response for his own self amusement ("I'm a fan of painting a target on my back"). I don't think you need overly concern yourself with his precious feelings when his actions are correctly categorised.
Please regard this:

BlackOtaku:Wow, I apologize then! I knew that there had been a thread on this before, by razlem's reply, but I expected a one-or-two-post-then-ignored-and-dead thread, not a 39-page borderline flame war! I fully understand the desire to avoid the topic now.
So no I don't think he did. He's been explaining that he did not intend for this to happen to this extent. "I'm a fan of painting a target on my back" does not mean "I like being called a troll", and is an ambiguous statement.

tommjames:"Fat" is just a description. Whether or not it is insulting depends on the context. The same goes for "troll".
It's your responsibility to certify and truly understand the attentions of the other speaker before you call them a "troll" or anything for that matter, not theirs nor the group mentality to explain every facet of their personality, otherwise "what you say is what you are", albeit even more immature, does chillingly ring true. The internet may be safer for those who wish to sling mud and naughty names, but such safety doesn't truly justify such behaviour, for all parties involved.

Please note I'm not justifying the action of trolling, I'm asking that they are not treated with the same attitudes (which merely perpetuates the problem, or ends up with someone being labelled with something they don't deserve because they were misunderstood and not given a chance at explaining what they actually mean - which I feel BlackOtaku has seized in this case)

johmue (Arată profil) 15 mai 2011, 13:08:34

ceigered:Please note I'm not justifying the action of trolling, I'm asking that they are not treated with the same attitudes (which merely perpetuates the problem, or ends up with someone being labelled with something they don't deserve because they were misunderstood and not given a chance at explaining what they actually mean - which I feel BlackOtaku has seized in this case)
If chicago really wants to resolve a misunderstanding he is free to do so. Instead he is reposting the same stuff again. Furthermore he is ignoring responses and only complaining that his suggestions are not accepted.

If all this is a misunderstanding it's up to him to explain that.

qwertz (Arată profil) 15 mai 2011, 13:09:29

ceigered, I believe it's an collegiality-minded vs. individualism-minded people clash again. 2011-05-13 9:15:30. To rough somebody up, with marking the regarding person a troll (or fat etc) - and telling others that this was an self-defence thing to protect others - that sounds really crazy for collegiality-minded folks. I assume, they already learn that at their individualism-minded Kindergarten/child care stage of career.

BlackOtaku (Arată profil) 15 mai 2011, 14:17:49

ceigered, I'm not quite sure what you meant in quoting me, but to make it clear; I'm not the OP, nor the one being called a troll (or at least I hope not! malgajo.gif ). I was apologizing because I was defending the OP a bit grouchily, and saying that people were being extremely rude and dismissive of the OP.

Mi:And finally; I don't quite get why some in this thread have been so rude about their opposition to it (yes, I find ignoring the OP and intentionally derailing the thread, though humorous, extremely rude). I hope though, that no matter how many of these threads/discussions that I come to see in the future, and no matter how tired I get of them, I will at least listen to and civilly debate what points I disagree with.
But if there was already a 39-page discussion by the same OP, on the same subject that broke down and died, then I have to say I understand avoiding the topic now! Because it pretty much has been discussed to death.

tommjames (Arată profil) 15 mai 2011, 14:21:02

ceigered:Please regard this: [..]
So no I don't think he did.
I have no idea how you conclude from BlackOtaku's comment that chicago didn't create this thread in order to troll. But if you really want to believe that he didn't, in the face of perfectly clear evidence that he did, I won't bother to convince you.

ceiegered:It's your responsibility to certify and truly understand the attentions of the other speaker before you call them a "troll"
The intent to troll is quite clear, so there's really no need for you to state the obvious in this way.

This is my last post in this completely pointless thread.

henma (Arată profil) 15 mai 2011, 15:28:53

ceigered:Blegh. Gratiuitous use of the "troll" label. Let's not degenerate into a bunch of uncultured barbarians now.
I don't think we are acting like a "bunch of uncultured barbarians".

It was already said that this very same document was posted some time ago and discussed in a long, long thread.

What has not been said is that a couple days ago, chicago posted this document in another (off topic) thread (here). Then, Erinja asked him (not without some irony okulumo.gif) not to start this discussion again.

Just after that, he crated this thread.

I think he is acting like a troll (Spanish saying, don't know if there is an English version: si se ve como un pato, camina como un pato y grazna como un pato... es un pato)

Amike,

Daniel.

P.S.: The sun shines again today... this fall has been too sunny... I wait it starts to rain soon, as hydroelectric plants are our primary source of energy, and if there is not enough water in the dams we'll may need to ration the electricity during winter malgajo.gif

Donniedillon (Arată profil) 15 mai 2011, 16:03:48

As someone who doesn't wash his hands before dinner and occasionally pillages nearby villages it take offense at the gratuitous use of the label "uncultured barbarian."

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