sudanglo:The single most important thing you could do to aid the growth of the number of speakers (as opposed to the growth of the language) is to change Esperanto's public image, so that it becomes a cool thing to learn Esperanto.

Once it is seen generally as a desirable/prestigious thing, then it should be easy enough to get it introduced into the schools.

That would tranform the number of speakers in less than a generation.

I'm with you on this one, friend.
I think that by changing Esperanto's image to something less constrictive than that of an academic curiosity or "geek talk" for eccentrics, it might help broadcast it to a broader audience which, in turn, might generate enough returns to finance more content in Esperanto, and so forth and so on.

More specifically, I think that a good approach to this is through the production of higher-quality media. By "quality", I'm not referring to the quality of the content/substance (as that is a very relative thing), but rather to the aesthetic quality, the professional appearance of the material. It's very difficult to disseminate creative material if it can't compete quality-wise with what's already out there. Esperanto film is making progress in this area thanks to easier access to relatively cheap and potent technology, but literature is lagging, and the sound quality of the music is still highly variable from one album to the next.

Also, I notice that a lot of the artistic material in Esperanto is often advertised as material "in Esperanto" which, I think, goes a long way in limiting its dissemination within the boundaries of the community. I think that Esperanto publishers, music labels, etc., should follow in the steps of publishers and music labels in other languages by not putting so much emphasis on the language every time they publish something in Esperanto. An esperantist will naturally know what language the film/book/song is in, and a non-esperantist, if he/she enjoys the material enough (read "if it's high-quality enough"), will find out what language it is, as usually happens when we see something we like in a "foreign" language. And even IF that person didn't care what language the material he/she bought is in, he/she still bought it, which will serve to fund even more content in Esperanto and, therefore, disseminate it to always broader audiences.

sudanglo:For a start perhaps we could organise a concerted attack on 'Globish' (international English as it is actually spoken).

I, for one, am fed up with hearing the ugly vowels, jarring consonants, and primitive grammar of our evergrowing immigrant population here in the UK.

And hardly a televison or radio bulletin passes without some interview with an Eksterlandano whose command of English is sorrowful.

Forget about the classic English virtues of tolerance and fairmindedness. It's time to start taking the piss - or to establish a tradition of correcting every mispronunciation, misuse of vocabulary and mangling of grammar, every time we encounter it.

I think this would be a real step backwards. People speak how they speak, and English is difficult. Also, if attacking immigrants you'd be siding with some very unsavoury people indeed. You try being an economic migrant or asylum seeker fleeing starvation or persecution, who, incidentally, probably knows two or three other languages already anyway.

La Brita Esperantisto, decades ago, used to have a "take the piss out of foreigners" section. It was as if they didn't want anybody to try to learn a foreign language. But then, the great Montague Butler is reputed to have "not liked foreigners".

It may have escaped your notice, but even on our little island we don't all speak the same. I certainly didn't speak standard English with my friends when I was young, and even decades later I sometimes use Scottish dialect words not realising that they're not "standard" English, whatever that is. So?

If you're going to take the piss out of something, make it something that deserves to have the piss taken out of it, like people who expect people to speak English when they themselves make no effort at all to learn other people's languages, or the little-Englander mentality of the BBC which has closed its pronunciation department and SEVEN years after Maria Sharapova won her first Wimbledon title, its commentators have STILL not learned how to pronounce her name. Now THAT'S ignorance. (Stress on the second syllable, if you're interested).

sudanglo:For a start perhaps we could organise a concerted attack on 'Globish' (international English as it is actually spoken).

I, for one, am fed up with hearing the ugly vowels, jarring consonants, and primitive grammar of our evergrowing immigrant population here in the UK.

And hardly a televison or radio bulletin passes without some interview with an Eksterlandano whose command of English is sorrowful.

Forget about the classic English virtues of tolerance and fairmindedness. It's time to start taking the piss - or to establish a tradition of correcting every mispronunciation, misuse of vocabulary and mangling of grammar, every time we encounter it.

Speak English or Esperanto, not Globish, should be the battle cry.

Are you out of your fucking mind? This is how wars start, sudanglo. If people hear Esperantists "attacking Globish" or "battle cries", they'll liken the movement to terrorism.The most peaceful and by far the most effective form of power is positive cultural influence- you must get the opposition to like you rather than fear you.

[/quote]"I concur, this would help a lot. Such a project would need money and talented, motivated people; a harder task because the pool of esperantists is smaller than certain other languages, but it's not impossible. It doesn't even need to be award winning, just popular!

Someone should do a song at Eurovision in EO, and if it's not allowed the rules should change. It would add something interesting to that contest, at least! It's got a bit dull of late with so many songs in English. Such an EO song should have lots of 'la la la' in the chorus. (the the the). "[/quote]Hahaha! Definitely agreed.

Personally, I would also like to see more addictive reading in the language, such as mangas.

razlem:Are you out of your fucking mind? This is how wars start, sudanglo. If people hear Esperantists "attacking Globish" or "battle cries", they'll liken the movement to terrorism.The most peaceful and by far the most effective form of power is positive cultural influence- you must get the opposition to like you rather than fear you.

Well, it has worked for French... If you speak bad French in Paris, most French people will look at you as if you had done something horrible... Some maybe will correct you as if you were a small child.

Maybe that's why French is no longer the (main) international language...

Just joking, by the way.

(what is not a joke is the fact that people in Paris can be a bit intolerant with outlanders sometimes... specially with people which speaks English... once I asked something in English to the people in the 'touristic informations' desk, and they answered in French... they even understood my question!... Once I was insulted in the subway when somebody asked me something in French and I politely answered that I didn't speak French (in French, not English)... he insulted me a lot... my wife was really scared... Well, I found nice people too, and I would go again... four days were too few to see such a beautiful city)

razlem:Are you out of your :::: mind?

Please bear in mind that juveniles might be reading this stuff. Captains of industry may well be able to say such things to subordinates (who daren't argue back), but in my view we should use more respectful language to each other, on the forum.

henma:

razlem:Are you out of your fucking mind? This is how wars start, sudanglo. If people hear Esperantists "attacking Globish" or "battle cries", they'll liken the movement to terrorism.The most peaceful and by far the most effective form of power is positive cultural influence- you must get the opposition to like you rather than fear you.

Well, it has worked for French... If you speak bad French in Paris, most French people will look at you as if you had done something horrible... Some maybe will correct you as if you were a small child.

In that case, nothing's stopping them from learning my language, then we can communicate using that.

henma:Well, it has worked for French... If you speak bad French in Paris, most French people will look at you as if you had done something horrible... Some maybe will correct you as if you were a small child.

Yeah, well the French have a reputation for being prudes

I'm trying to get a more positive image for Esperanto, one that involves peaceful cooperation with other languages. This is impossible to do if people like sudanglo aren't willing.

@Miland, there are worse things on the internet. From my point of view, sudanglo's idea is far more damaging than any profanity.

razlem:@Miland, there are worse things on the internet. From my point of view, sudanglo's idea is far more damaging than any profanity.

I'm sure that you can see the fallacy of the argument 'there are worse things than I'm doing', so I won't press that point. But I think that even if we seriously disagree on something, we can do so respectfully. Profanity is not something I am incapable of, in moments of stress or frustration, but putting it in written communications is another matter, and I see that as disrespectful of the whole readership.

henma:(what is not a joke is the fact that people in Paris can be a bit intolerant with outlanders sometimes... specially with people which speaks English... once I asked something in English to the people in the 'touristic informations' desk, and they answered in French... they even understood my question!... Once I was insulted in the subway when somebody asked me something in French and I politely answered that I didn't speak French (in French, not English)... he insulted me a lot... my wife was really scared... Well, I found nice people too, and I would go again... four days were too few to see such a beautiful city)

If you want to find a group of tourists with an above-average proportion of cringeingly ignorant boors, look no further than the British. If there's someone screaming "OYNIKKIN!" repeatedly at the top of their voice, to a polite French barman saying "I'm sorry, sir, I don't understand what you mean", in perfect English, but not grasping the fact that the shreiks emanating from the boor concerned are how he always pronounces "Heineken", then you can guess where he is from, and in my case find refuge in adorning my less than C2 French with a faked slight German accent in order to disclaim all responsibility. I think the French have to put up with a lot, their country being so easy for the British to get to. Sorry if the rest of you get the flak.