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Accusative of Direction

Alkanadi,2016年5月18日の

メッセージ: 41

言語: English

Alkanadi (プロフィールを表示) 2016年5月18日 9:45:20

Someone said that you can only use the accusative of direction for nouns that are places. It cannot be used for nouns that are not places.

Therefore, are these sentences correct?

Li, doktoro, tiel vestite venis restoracion...

Serebrovskij aliris la tablon kaj premis la sonorilbutonon

Vinokurov aliris la tablon kaj metis sur la randon areton

...infano sola rajtis alpaŝi la tablon kaj elekti la kukan pupon

...jen alirante la tablon kaj prenante la kalikon...

Nun ni iris paŝon plian

Hajjat iris paŝon post paŝo, en la procesio...

...li tiam suriris arbon por pasigi tie la nokton...

bryku (プロフィールを表示) 2016年5月18日 9:57:55

But all of these are places though (except paŝo, which is an idiom - originally it was "paŝo post paŝo" ). What is it exactly that you want to show here?

sudanglo (プロフィールを表示) 2016年5月18日 12:43:44

The examples with paŝon are effectively 'je paŝo'

The examples with the compound verbs aliri alpaŝi are not surprising. Such verbs beginning with a preposition often behave differently to the simple verb.

Mi ĉeestis la kongreson - OK
Mi estis la kongreso - quite different meaning

La lampo prilumis la ĉambron - OK
La lampo lumis en la ĉambro - different meaning

Alkanadi (プロフィールを表示) 2016年5月18日 14:14:20

bryku:But all of these are places though (except paŝo, which is an idiom - originally it was "paŝo post paŝo" ). What is it exactly that you want to show here?
restoracion, tablon, ect., are not places apparently

Alkanadi (プロフィールを表示) 2016年5月18日 14:17:11

sudanglo:TThe examples with the compound verbs aliri alpaŝi are not surprising. Such verbs beginning with a preposition often behave differently to the simple verb.
Thanks. So does this means that words like aliri operate as pronoun instead of a verb?

Also, I assume that this one is just a clear mistake:
Li, doktoro, tiel vestite venis restoracion...
What are your thoughts?

erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2016年5月18日 15:07:37

A restaurant is a place.

For the table, etc., you are missing the fact that "al" is being used as a prefix, so that's adding the directional element. Iri is not used with the accusative (except with direction) but "aliri" (usually meaning "to approach") can be used with any noun, and the noun takes the accusative ending. As PIV defines it, "Moviĝi, por atingi iun aŭ ion". You could say "aliri la tablon" or "aliri al la tablo", depending on preference.

As a note, when you take a root like "iri" that is intransitive and add a preposition as a prefix, the transitivity sometimes changes. "Eniri" is transitive, for example (but "foriri" is intransitive" )

Alkanadi (プロフィールを表示) 2016年5月18日 15:14:58

erinja:...you are missing the fact that "al" is being used as a prefix
Am I missing this fact?

erinja:A restaurant is a place
Where do we draw the line between what is a place and what isn't? Is a house a place? Is a desk a place?

Miland (プロフィールを表示) 2016年5月18日 16:04:55

Alkanadi:Where do we draw the line between what is a place and what isn't?
You may use the accusative with a named place ending in -o. With anything else, use al to indicate movement, and you should do fine. Don't say e.g. Mi iros ŝin, because people will either not understand, or think that you are a beginner.

Alkanadi (プロフィールを表示) 2016年5月18日 16:48:07

Miland:
Alkanadi:Where do we draw the line between what is a place and what isn't?
You may use the accusative with a named place ending in -o.
Does a garden (ĝardeno) count as a named place ending with o?

lagtendisto (プロフィールを表示) 2016年5月19日 4:36:01

Miland:
Alkanadi:Where do we draw the line between what is a place and what isn't?
You may use the accusative with a named place ending in -o. With anything else, use al to indicate movement, and you should do fine. Don't say e.g. Mi iros ŝin, because people will either not understand, or think that you are a beginner.
So, named place could be everything of some 'domesticated' place?

Example of 'al'-movement: 'Do ni povas iri al tien.'

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