Сообщений: 41
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Alkanadi (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2016 г., 9:45:20
Therefore, are these sentences correct?
Li, doktoro, tiel vestite venis restoracion...
Serebrovskij aliris la tablon kaj premis la sonorilbutonon
Vinokurov aliris la tablon kaj metis sur la randon areton
...infano sola rajtis alpaŝi la tablon kaj elekti la kukan pupon
...jen alirante la tablon kaj prenante la kalikon...
Nun ni iris paŝon plian
Hajjat iris paŝon post paŝo, en la procesio...
...li tiam suriris arbon por pasigi tie la nokton...
bryku (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2016 г., 9:57:55
sudanglo (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2016 г., 12:43:44
The examples with the compound verbs aliri alpaŝi are not surprising. Such verbs beginning with a preposition often behave differently to the simple verb.
Mi ĉeestis la kongreson - OK
Mi estis la kongreso - quite different meaning
La lampo prilumis la ĉambron - OK
La lampo lumis en la ĉambro - different meaning
Alkanadi (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2016 г., 14:14:20
bryku:But all of these are places though (except paŝo, which is an idiom - originally it was "paŝo post paŝo" ). What is it exactly that you want to show here?restoracion, tablon, ect., are not places apparently
Alkanadi (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2016 г., 14:17:11
sudanglo:TThe examples with the compound verbs aliri alpaŝi are not surprising. Such verbs beginning with a preposition often behave differently to the simple verb.Thanks. So does this means that words like aliri operate as pronoun instead of a verb?
Also, I assume that this one is just a clear mistake:
Li, doktoro, tiel vestite venis restoracion...
What are your thoughts?
erinja (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2016 г., 15:07:37
For the table, etc., you are missing the fact that "al" is being used as a prefix, so that's adding the directional element. Iri is not used with the accusative (except with direction) but "aliri" (usually meaning "to approach") can be used with any noun, and the noun takes the accusative ending. As PIV defines it, "Moviĝi, por atingi iun aŭ ion". You could say "aliri la tablon" or "aliri al la tablo", depending on preference.
As a note, when you take a root like "iri" that is intransitive and add a preposition as a prefix, the transitivity sometimes changes. "Eniri" is transitive, for example (but "foriri" is intransitive" )
Alkanadi (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2016 г., 15:14:58
erinja:...you are missing the fact that "al" is being used as a prefixAm I missing this fact?
erinja:A restaurant is a placeWhere do we draw the line between what is a place and what isn't? Is a house a place? Is a desk a place?
Miland (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2016 г., 16:04:55
Alkanadi:Where do we draw the line between what is a place and what isn't?You may use the accusative with a named place ending in -o. With anything else, use al to indicate movement, and you should do fine. Don't say e.g. Mi iros ŝin, because people will either not understand, or think that you are a beginner.
Alkanadi (Показать профиль) 18 мая 2016 г., 16:48:07
Miland:Does a garden (ĝardeno) count as a named place ending with o?Alkanadi:Where do we draw the line between what is a place and what isn't?You may use the accusative with a named place ending in -o.
lagtendisto (Показать профиль) 19 мая 2016 г., 4:36:01
Miland:So, named place could be everything of some 'domesticated' place?Alkanadi:Where do we draw the line between what is a place and what isn't?You may use the accusative with a named place ending in -o. With anything else, use al to indicate movement, and you should do fine. Don't say e.g. Mi iros ŝin, because people will either not understand, or think that you are a beginner.
Example of 'al'-movement: 'Do ni povas iri al tien.'