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Vowel differences and technicalities

от ceigered, 02 декември 2008

Съобщения: 26

Език: English

ceigered (Покажи профила) 02 декември 2008, 05:17:19

Sorry if my spelling is horrendous, I'm not having a 'thinking' day today ridulo.gif

I've found that in Esperanto there is the infamous 'one letter one sound' system, however, I've heard variations of the vowels.

Specifically, i often sounds like the 'ee' 'keep' but also like the 'i' in 'sit'.

Now, in words like 'lingvo', the second, 'short' i (Near-close near-front unrounded vowel, wiki-it lango.gif) is probably acceptable because, due to nasalisation and the nature of the closed syllable it's in, it is very hard not to pronounce the 'i' like that for many speakers. But, in other cases, like 'internacia' (which I've heard pronounced 'internacja, with the stress on the 'nac' and not the 'ciiiiia'), what is the general consensus? I'm mostly concerned about comprehension and the risk of reducing the 'i' to a schwa or losing it all together.

mnlg (Покажи профила) 02 декември 2008, 08:33:05

The "one letter, one sound" principle cracks if you look close enough. The phoneme for the "n" in "fungo" ([ŋ]) is of course not the same as for the "n" in "naŭ" ([n]). However it is true that those two variants are allophones in esperanto; they are treated as the same, and by using one or the other you will not change the meaning of the word.

It seems only natural that you are using and [i:] for short and long (stressed) vowels since that's what English has. I use and [i:] for the same reason, that is, that's what Italian has. I have been taught that is the correct phoneme for the letter "i", but again, by using , and as long as it sounds far enough from [e], you won't change the meaning of the word; you will at most be considered to have an accent by speakers coming from other languages.

Rogir (Покажи профила) 02 декември 2008, 14:37:03

There is a good reason that Esperanto has only 5 vowels. Because vowels are more likely to be mispronounced than consonants. So don't worry if your i's or a's are slightly off-standard, as long as you don't schwa them.

ceigered (Покажи профила) 03 декември 2008, 05:49:26

Dank' mnlg and Rogir, I now understand why there are only 5 vowels - I always thought it a pity that my favourite sounds (e.g. æ) weren't represented by the Alfabeto, but now I see the logic in that - if all the many vowels were used in Esperanto it would be too easy to mispronounce them all! rido.gif

Grandan dankon!

Momomomomo (Покажи профила) 03 декември 2008, 18:20:05

There are only 5 vowel sounds but "tiuj" is pronounced "tee-OO-i" with a short i on the end.

orthohawk (Покажи профила) 05 декември 2008, 03:11:50

Momomomomo:There are only 5 vowel sounds but "tiuj" is pronounced "tee-OO-i" with a short i on the end.
Actually, "tiuj" should be pronounced "TEE-oo-i" since the "j" is a consonant, thus the next-to-last vowel is "i".

ceigered (Покажи профила) 05 декември 2008, 10:44:59

Iĉo:I have a great pic somewhere that says "I can't brain today. I have the dumb".
I'm sure I've got that too somewhere, damn I'll have to look for it.

I'd say that the man who pronounced Internacia as Internacja probably slipped up by accident - maybe he studied Russian at one point (same stress I believe).

I see what you mean by phoneme, but I guess 'I' would still need to be /i:/ when stressed otherwise it would sound too much like a schwa or E.

69UM24OSU12 (Покажи профила) 06 декември 2008, 00:29:45

orthohawk:
Momomomomo:There are only 5 vowel sounds but "tiuj" is pronounced "tee-OO-i" with a short i on the end.
Actually, "tiuj" should be pronounced "TEE-oo-i" since the "j" is a consonant, thus the next-to-last vowel is "i".
It seems to me that in Esperanto "j" could be considered at times a vowel and at times a consonant, just like "y" in English. In the word "jes" it's definitely a consonant but the "-aj" and "-oj" endings are vowel dipthongs. In "tiuj," it's not in a dipthong, but it still seems more of a vowel sound than a consonant.

mnlg (Покажи профила) 06 декември 2008, 01:15:28

69UM24OSU12:It seems to me that in Esperanto "j" could be considered at times a vowel and at times a consonant, just like "y" in English.
No, it's always a semi-vowel, or semi-consonant. A vocalic sound that behaves like a consonant.
In the word "jes" it's definitely a consonant but the "-aj" and "-oj" endings are vowel dipthongs.
A diphthong is usually composed by a vowel and a semi-vowel.
In "tiuj," it's not in a dipthong, but it still seems more of a vowel sound than a consonant.
On the contrary, it is a diphthong. I think it resembles the sound of "Louis" in English.

erinja (Покажи профила) 06 декември 2008, 02:30:47

mnlg:On the contrary, it is a diphthong. I think it resembles the sound of "Louis" in English.
That'd be the French "Louis" presumably, not the English pronunciation that can also be written Lewis.

In any case, tiuj should be two syllables. TEE-ooy.

I can't speak for the rest of the English-speaking world but Americans are usually aware of the Spanish word "muy". It's one syllable; it's not "moo-ey", but "mooy". It's the same with tiuj. The uj in tiuj is just like the uy in "muy".

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