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Krokodili

de tommjames, 30 mars 2009

Messages : 38

Langue: English

tommjames (Voir le profil) 30 mars 2009 09:50:12

Does anyone know how the verb krokodili arose or when it was first used/seen? (For anyone who doesn't know, it means to speak one's native language when Esperanto would be more appropriate).

The Wikipedia Esperanto vocabulary article suggests it may have come from "crocodile tears". Anyone know if that's true?

Miland (Voir le profil) 30 mars 2009 10:09:26

My understanding is that crocodiles are supposed to have big mouths and small brains, which is how the expression originated.

Kraughne (Voir le profil) 2 avril 2009 21:43:52

There doesn't appear to be a different etymology. I don't know about its first occurrence, but this idiom might have come about some time during the brief "popular" circulation of Esperanto in America in the 1960's.

roint (Voir le profil) 2 avril 2009 22:02:47

An Esperanto Dictionary and Phrasebook by J.F. Conroy which I have (It's an absolutely terrible dictionary, but the only one I could find where I lived at the time) also says that there are other slang terms related to krokodili, like "aligatori"; "to speak a national language when only some of your speakers can understand it", and "kajmani"; "to speak a national language which none of your listeners can understand".

I don't know how often these terms are used, understood, or if they're even real.

russ (Voir le profil) 6 avril 2009 09:58:42

roint:I don't know how often these terms are used, understood, or if they're even real.
"krokodili" is quite commonly used (and pictures of crocodiles are often used in humorous illustrations about Esperanto).

"aligatori" is somewhat common. E.g. at quite a few events I've been to, there was an "aligatorejo" for people to practice speaking other languages that they are learning - e.g. my native language is English, and I can speak Polish with a Lithuanian Esperantist who knows some Polish, and she can reply to me in Polish, or English (but not Lithuanian or Esperanto). Or I speak (terrible) German with an Austrian, who replies in English. Silly fun yet also good language practice!

Rogir (Voir le profil) 6 avril 2009 14:00:16

According to one article in the magazine of the Brusela Esperantista Klubo, it originated in Paris, by a waiter named Ferrari.

There are the terms krokodili, aligatori, kajmani, lacerti, and gaviali, and they mean (I may be wrong about the order)
to talk your own language in an esperanto setting
to talk the other's language in an esperanto setting
to talk someone else's language in an esperanto setting
to talk a different planned language in an esperanto setting
to talk esperanto among non-esperantists.

ceigered (Voir le profil) 6 avril 2009 15:59:07

Rogir:to talk esperanto among non-esperantists.
I'm guilty

jchthys (Voir le profil) 6 avril 2009 16:13:59

ceigered:
Rogir:to talk esperanto among non-esperantists.
I'm guilty
mi ankaŭ

1Guy1 (Voir le profil) 7 avril 2009 09:38:38

jchthys:
ceigered:
Rogir:to talk esperanto among non-esperantists.
I'm guilty
mi ankaŭ
I'm planning on deliberately doing this to get rid of unwanted sales calls rido.gif

ceigered (Voir le profil) 7 avril 2009 11:33:10

1Guy1:
jchthys:
ceigered:
Rogir:to talk esperanto among non-esperantists.
I'm guilty
mi ankaŭ
I'm planning on deliberately doing this to get rid of unwanted sales calls rido.gif
The biggest problem though is when you go "Hello may I please ask who's calling?" and then your plans are fried ridego.gif

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