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Krokodili

viết bởi tommjames, Ngày 30 tháng 3 năm 2009

Tin nhắn: 38

Nội dung: English

tommjames (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 09:50:12 Ngày 30 tháng 3 năm 2009

Does anyone know how the verb krokodili arose or when it was first used/seen? (For anyone who doesn't know, it means to speak one's native language when Esperanto would be more appropriate).

The Wikipedia Esperanto vocabulary article suggests it may have come from "crocodile tears". Anyone know if that's true?

Miland (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 10:09:26 Ngày 30 tháng 3 năm 2009

My understanding is that crocodiles are supposed to have big mouths and small brains, which is how the expression originated.

Kraughne (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 21:43:52 Ngày 02 tháng 4 năm 2009

There doesn't appear to be a different etymology. I don't know about its first occurrence, but this idiom might have come about some time during the brief "popular" circulation of Esperanto in America in the 1960's.

roint (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 22:02:47 Ngày 02 tháng 4 năm 2009

An Esperanto Dictionary and Phrasebook by J.F. Conroy which I have (It's an absolutely terrible dictionary, but the only one I could find where I lived at the time) also says that there are other slang terms related to krokodili, like "aligatori"; "to speak a national language when only some of your speakers can understand it", and "kajmani"; "to speak a national language which none of your listeners can understand".

I don't know how often these terms are used, understood, or if they're even real.

russ (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 09:58:42 Ngày 06 tháng 4 năm 2009

roint:I don't know how often these terms are used, understood, or if they're even real.
"krokodili" is quite commonly used (and pictures of crocodiles are often used in humorous illustrations about Esperanto).

"aligatori" is somewhat common. E.g. at quite a few events I've been to, there was an "aligatorejo" for people to practice speaking other languages that they are learning - e.g. my native language is English, and I can speak Polish with a Lithuanian Esperantist who knows some Polish, and she can reply to me in Polish, or English (but not Lithuanian or Esperanto). Or I speak (terrible) German with an Austrian, who replies in English. Silly fun yet also good language practice!

Rogir (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 14:00:16 Ngày 06 tháng 4 năm 2009

According to one article in the magazine of the Brusela Esperantista Klubo, it originated in Paris, by a waiter named Ferrari.

There are the terms krokodili, aligatori, kajmani, lacerti, and gaviali, and they mean (I may be wrong about the order)
to talk your own language in an esperanto setting
to talk the other's language in an esperanto setting
to talk someone else's language in an esperanto setting
to talk a different planned language in an esperanto setting
to talk esperanto among non-esperantists.

ceigered (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 15:59:07 Ngày 06 tháng 4 năm 2009

Rogir:to talk esperanto among non-esperantists.
I'm guilty

jchthys (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 16:13:59 Ngày 06 tháng 4 năm 2009

ceigered:
Rogir:to talk esperanto among non-esperantists.
I'm guilty
mi ankaŭ

1Guy1 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 09:38:38 Ngày 07 tháng 4 năm 2009

jchthys:
ceigered:
Rogir:to talk esperanto among non-esperantists.
I'm guilty
mi ankaŭ
I'm planning on deliberately doing this to get rid of unwanted sales calls rido.gif

ceigered (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 11:33:10 Ngày 07 tháng 4 năm 2009

1Guy1:
jchthys:
ceigered:
Rogir:to talk esperanto among non-esperantists.
I'm guilty
mi ankaŭ
I'm planning on deliberately doing this to get rid of unwanted sales calls rido.gif
The biggest problem though is when you go "Hello may I please ask who's calling?" and then your plans are fried ridego.gif

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