Příspěvky: 26
Jazyk: English
SonicChao (Ukázat profil) 8. března 2007 22:11:25
It talks about the -ul- thing. I don't understand.
And the dictionary is of little help. Anyone want to explain it?
DesertNaiad (Ukázat profil) 8. března 2007 22:46:54
SonicChao:In 'Bildoj kaj demandoj', picture 32 is confusing me.I'm not that far along in the same course, but in this forum one of the threads talks about the u ending. Perhaps it's similar?
It talks about the -ul- thing. I don't understand.
And the dictionary is of little help. Anyone want to explain it?
http://en.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t=5...
*looks forward to a more informed answer than my own*
SonicChao (Ukázat profil) 8. března 2007 22:54:28
DesertNaiad:Thanks for your reply, but that's not what I meant. I already know about the -u ending.SonicChao:In 'Bildoj kaj demandoj', picture 32 is confusing me.I'm not that far along in the same course, but in this forum one of the threads talks about the u ending. Perhaps it's similar?
It talks about the -ul- thing. I don't understand.
And the dictionary is of little help. Anyone want to explain it?
http://en.lernu.net/komunikado/forumo/temo.php?t=5...
*looks forward to a more informed answer than my own*
-ul- is an affix. I don't know what it means.
Islander (Ukázat profil) 8. března 2007 23:19:30
Riĉulo = Rich man
Komikulo = Funny Guy
Insululo = Islander
...[/list]It can also be used by itself, ulo, to just mean guy, or fellow, or buddy...
SonicChao (Ukázat profil) 8. března 2007 23:34:51
Islander:-ul- means guy, or fellow that is what is described by the preceding root. For example:[LISTO]Can it be applied to women?
Riĉulo = Rich man
Komikulo = Funny Guy
Insululo = Islander
...[/list]It can also be used by itself, ulo, to just mean guy, or fellow, or buddy...
Stultulo = Foolish girl/guy?
Artistulo = Artistic girl/guy?
Islander (Ukázat profil) 9. března 2007 0:16:59
SonicChao (Ukázat profil) 9. března 2007 0:23:25
Islander:No. Women must add the -in- affixe. Stultulino, Artistulino, ...That would be two suffixes, but that looks okay.
Now I understand. Thank you. Islander (Ukázat profil) 9. března 2007 0:34:28
erinja (Ukázat profil) 9. března 2007 1:40:23
Islander:No. Women must add the -in- affixe. Stultulino, Artistulino, ...First - "artisto" already refers to a person, so an artist would be an "artisto" or an "artistino". You never really see -ul- together with -ist- for this reason, because they both indicate types of people (with various connotations)
But the real reason for my message is that it isn't quite accurate to say that (in modern Esperanto) the -in- ending is absolutely necessary for women. That was true in classical Esperanto, but things have evolved somewhat. In modern Esperanto, it is considered quite normal to have "stultulo" (and any other words -ul- words, and words referring to people in general) refer to both men and women.
It often depends on the language origin of the speaker though. Speakers of highly gendered languages like French, Italian, and German tend to add the -in- when talking about a female. Speakers of languages like English are unlikely to use it. Certainly there are Italian speakers who rarely use -in- for females, and English speakers who always use it, but this is the general pattern I have noticed.
In modern grammar, either form is usually considered correct.
In general, in modern Esperanto, the only words that absolutely 100% refer to males only are gender-specific words like father, uncle, brother, etc. There are movements to change this (you can see an intense debate about it in an older thread on this forum) but most people seem to agree that to get rid of the last vestiges of sexism in Esperanto would require a major overhaul, and is probably not worth it.
What I normally tell my Ana Pana students is that they can choose to use the -in- for all females (instruisto = male teacher, instruistino = female teacher), or not to use it except for emphasis (instruisto = any teacher, instruistino = a teacher who you want to specifically emphasize is female, virinstruisto = a teacher who you want to emphasize is male). What I think is important for Esperanto students is to be aware of the issues and aware of the varying usages, so that no matter which form they personally prefer and use, they will understand everyone else's speech.
awake (Ukázat profil) 9. března 2007 3:05:06
Also, just for completeness, sometimes it is useful to specifically mark the male gender. This is typically done with the vir- root word used as a prefix.
Teri estas virinstruisto. = Terry is a male teacher
Ĝis!
erinja:
In general, in modern Esperanto, the only words that absolutely 100% refer to males only are gender-specific words like father, uncle, brother, etc. There are movements to change this (you can see an intense debate about it in an older thread on this forum) but most people seem to agree that to get rid of the last vestiges of sexism in Esperanto would require a major overhaul, and is probably not worth it.
What I normally tell my Ana Pana students is that they can choose to use the -in- for all females (instruisto = male teacher, instruistino = female teacher), or not to use it except for emphasis (instruisto = any teacher, instruistino = a teacher who you want to specifically emphasize is female, virinstruisto = a teacher who you want to emphasize is male). What I think is important for Esperanto students is to be aware of the issues and aware of the varying usages, so that no matter which form they personally prefer and use, they will understand everyone else's speech.