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Names of Letters

de jonsd, 10 de marzo de 2007

Aportes: 20

Idioma: English

jonsd (Mostrar perfil) 10 de marzo de 2007 10:37:03

How should I say the names of letters when spelling out a word?
The original rule was to add "o" to each consonant letter, i.e.
a, bo, co, cxo, do, e, fo, go, gxo, ho,

But I've been told that this is incorrect.
I have read that this has been replaced by a scheme which better distinguishes letters.

I have seen:
a, ba, co, cxo, da, e, fo, ga, gxa, ha,
etc. (in J.C.Wells dictionary)
and:
a, be, ce, cxa, de, e, ef, ge, gxe, ha,
hxi, i, je, ka, el, om, en, o, pa,
etc, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto_orthography

Which scheme should I use for a text-to-speech synthesizer: http://espeak.sf.net/ ?

Kwekubo (Mostrar perfil) 10 de marzo de 2007 14:14:10

The only pronunciation system in everyday use is the first one you mention, with consonants ending in -o. I understand some specific groups who need to spell things out in poor sound conditions (eg radio amateurs) use different systems, such as the ones you mention, but I have never come across anyone who uses such a system in everyday speech. I'd suggest you use the standard -o system in your program.

erinja (Mostrar perfil) 10 de marzo de 2007 15:28:37

jonsd:
I have seen:
a, ba, co, ĉo, da, e, fo, ga, ĝa, ha,
etc. (in J.C.Wells dictionary)
and:
a, be, ce, ĉa, de, e, ef, ge, ĝe, ha,
ĥi, i, je, ka, el, om, en, o, pa,
etc, at
Kwekubo is right; I never heard anything but the -o system.

And actually, these other systems don't look much better to me. They both have b- and d- followed by the same vowel. Since b and d are hard to distinguish in poor sound conditions, I am really surprised that the people who devised those methods didn't find a better way to distinguish them than be/de and ba/da.

Islander (Mostrar perfil) 12 de marzo de 2007 14:41:13

I am really surprised that the people who devised those methods didn't find a better way to distinguish them than be/de and ba/da.
They did, it's called the phonectic alphabet: Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, ... (this is obviously using a conventional western alphabet). I suppose we can make a contest out of making a new Esperanto based phonetic alphabet!

Kwekubo (Mostrar perfil) 13 de marzo de 2007 11:51:06

Islander:They did, it's called the phonectic alphabet: Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, ... (this is obviously using a conventional western alphabet). I suppose we can make a contest out of making a new Esperanto based phonetic alphabet!
There already is at least one version - I remember coming across it in Gaston Waringhien's "Lingvo kaj Vivo". I don't have the book to hand unfortunately so I can't give some examples.

T0dd (Mostrar perfil) 14 de marzo de 2007 01:51:38

Check out: Lingva Kritiko

kanajlo (Mostrar perfil) 18 de marzo de 2007 01:44:14

"En Esperantujo UEA prezentis en antaŭaj Jarlibroj literumalfabeton, kiun ni povas rigardi kiel duonoficialan:"

"Asfalto, Barbaro, Centimetro, Ĉefo, Doktoro, Elemento, Fabriko, Gumo, Ĝirafo, Hotelo, Ĥaoso, Insekto, Jubileo, Ĵurnalo, Kilogramo, Legendo, Maŝino, Naturo, Oktobro, Papero, Rekordo, Salato, Ŝilingo, Triumfo, Universo, Ŭ Universo-hoko, Vulkano, Zinko."

Ankau mi notis en 1992-a Jarlibro la jenon:
alfa, bravo, cigaredo, ĉefo, delta, eĥo, floro, golfo, ĝojo, hotelo, ĥaoso, indiano, Juliet', ĵuro, kilo, luno, maŝino, novembro, oktobro, papo, kuo, rekordo, sofo, ŝafo (aŭ ŝilingo), triumfo, uniformo, uniform-hoko, Viktorio, vavo (w), ikso (x), ipsolono (y), zuluo.

Kwekubo (Mostrar perfil) 18 de marzo de 2007 18:13:49

Nu, jen tria propono! At last I have my copy of "Lingvo kaj vivo" again, so I can quote for you Waringhien's alphabet proposal (page 243). It uses a mix of proper nouns, taken from the systems traditionally used in England, France and Germany, and adding some references to Esperanto where Waringhien couldn't find a suitable word. It also includes names for the non-Esperanto letters of the Latin alphabet.
Anna, Bastiano, Cezaro, Ĉefeĉ, Davido, Eduardo, Frederiko, Gastono, Ĝakomo, Hamleto, Ĥoreb, Izaako, Jozefo, Ĵaval, Kolumbo, Ludoviko, Moseo, Natalia, Oktavo, Petro, Quirinal, Rajmondo, Sofia, Ŝimŝon, Tomaso, Ursula, Ŭestlando, Valentina, William, Xerxes, Yelland, Zamenhof.

Islander (Mostrar perfil) 19 de marzo de 2007 21:17:31

The 2 provided examples don't make much sense to me. The idea of such alphabet, as the NATO standard is, is to provide a short reference (usually 1 strong syllable followed by a soft one: ALpha, BRAvo, CHARlie, ...). Most provided examples have 3, even 4 syllables. This is counter-productive.

Also, each word should be selected by its unlikelyness to be used in a normal conversation to avoid confusion, and by it clear reference to the letter each word represent.

I spend my day on the phone, so I'm very familiar with the NATO standard. But there are days when I just feel like having fun with this: [LISTO]
Yes, it's K like knife and P like psychologist... rideto.gif[/list]

kanajlo (Mostrar perfil) 20 de marzo de 2007 01:24:36

Islander, your point is well taken. There is a need for this, and perhaps you are the person to do it.
My first Esperanto teacher once said it was important to learn to spell well in Esperanto, because directions may be given to you over the phone, street names and family names and such, or vice versa. A good phonetic alphabet would be instantly and easily understood by any fluent Esperanto speaker, even if that speaker had never encountered it before. Don't you agree? okulumo.gif

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