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The Ĥ words

ya Roberto12, 24 Januari 2010

Ujumbe: 46

Lugha: English

Roberto12 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Januari 2010 10:02:55 asubuhi

Vilinilo:In fact, there are alternatives for all those words. I think the ONLY word in Esperanto with ĥ that doesn't have an alternative is "ĉeĥo" (czech).

The alternative forms of eĥo and monaĥo are ekoo and of monako.
Thanks, but are you sure about "monako"? In the Lernu dictionary it says that that means Monaco! The word "monko" seems to be free, and a google search yields one Esperanto dictionary that gives it as meaning monk.

(Perhaps the likers of Ĥ should migrate to Klingon lango.gif)

erinja (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Januari 2010 2:53:35 alasiri

I think that there are so few words with ĥ in them, that the Esperanto community doesn't see much point in getting upset over them.

And I don't see too much point in engaging in some kind of big project to get rid of the ĥ words. If someone doesn't learn Esperanto because of the letter ĥ, then this person would certainly find other things in Esperanto not to their liking, so it's hardly the fault of ĥ alone.

darkweasel (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Januari 2010 3:33:23 alasiri

Roberto12:
Vilinilo:In fact, there are alternatives for all those words. I think the ONLY word in Esperanto with ĥ that doesn't have an alternative is "ĉeĥo" (czech).

The alternative forms of eĥo and monaĥo are ekoo and of monako.
Thanks, but are you sure about "monako"? In the Lernu dictionary it says that that means Monaco! The word "monko" seems to be free, and a google search yields one Esperanto dictionary that gives it as meaning monk.
ReVo has monako (but not *monko). This is a word like kubo, which is also a country name and a normal noun at the same time okulumo.gif

Anyway, here we see another reason to use ĥ: This double meaning doesn't exist if you use it.

saloli (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Januari 2010 3:57:29 alasiri

I love the Ĥ, and I make a special effort to use it instead of the alternatives, which seem to exist to make it easier for English speakers. The Ĥ seems to exist in the majority of languages (Arabic has several 'h' sounds, all different). I much prefer Ĥaoso to kaoso etc.

I teach Spanish, so I really try to get my students to make a strong Ĥ for the Spanish j, as most English speakers tend to let there H's disappear altogether.

Ĥ is Ĥoly, Ĥ is good, I will never give up my Ĥo! rido.gif

ĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤĤ

Frankouche (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Januari 2010 4:06:46 alasiri

Roberto12:Many (most?) people, including myself, loathe the Ĥ consonant, both because of the noise it represents and because of how hard it is to articulate well. It is not suitable for an international language, and it was only right that the few words that contained it should have been modified over the years.
Is this a sort of anglo-saxon linguistic imperialism ? okulumo.gif

arcxjo:Plus native speakers of Greek, slavic and caucasian languages, Persian, Hungarian, Hindi, Dutch and Afrikaans, Scottish English, German, Arabic, Hebrew, Spanish, even Mandarin... Actually, this consonant is fairly common throughout the world. I'd say it's even more popular than some other sounds we can find in Esperanto.
Exactly !

We won't upset all these peoples !

gyrus (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Januari 2010 4:18:27 alasiri

I love the ĥ noise, although I only like the letter in it's majuscule form, Ĥ.

henshui (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Januari 2010 4:24:15 alasiri

ceigered:Hxino is etymologically out of whack, if we go with the theory that "chin-" comes from Sanskrit činh (cxin) from the Mandarin Qín (Qin dynasty). However to my understanding q came from k so maybe "Hxino" could be explained if you said that "Hxino" is based on "Kino"... off topic though lol.
I guess it was Polish "Chiny" (Polish ch is pronounced like Esperanto ĥ) that ended up being borrowed as Ĥinio...

Roberto12 (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Januari 2010 4:57:44 alasiri

I accept that some people are fine with Ĥ, and also that different people have problems with different letters. However, the reality, which I discovered (I didn't cause it!), was that alternatives for Ĥs have been created, and my main reason for starting this thread was to check that every Ĥ-word has an alternative. I'm happy to find that this is the case.

I'm surprised by how many Ĥ-people have come out of the woodwork to defend this noise. I think I'll stop talking now rideto.gif

saloli (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Januari 2010 9:58:54 alasiri

Roberto12:I'm surprised by how many Ĥ-people have come out of the woodwork to defend this noise. I think I'll stop talking now rideto.gif
Ĥa! that's terrific! There are more Ĥouloj than we thought!! Mi estas Ĥoisto, ĉu vi ĥoas?

Besides, it's a great sound to make first thing in the morning to give your sleepy bed voice a good work over before you have to spend the day talking in front of a class okulumo.gif

Ĥappy ĥoing!

Frankouche (Wasifu wa mtumiaji) 25 Januari 2010 10:33:56 alasiri

...that alternatives for Ĥs have been created, and my main reason for starting this thread was to check that every Ĥ-word has an alternative...
Few time ago, i speaked in an other topic of my difficulties to remember in esperanto some french words which had been esperantize with a different orthograph, ex : pejzaĝo (paysage=peizaĵe), aĉeti (acheter/aŝete)...And i've been very blamed : "Frankouche, you are too lazy, Speak with the good prononciation, And the fundamentoooo ??!!..." rideto.gif

Now you find an alternate orthograph for the "Ĥ", because it's hard to prononce, and it don't matter to you all ? senkulpa.gif

Are you all so lazy ? rido.gif rido.gif

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