No, that was a question!
de qwertz, 2010-februaro-12
Mesaĝoj: 52
Lingvo: English
Lunombrulino (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-17 17:34:46
qwertz:Hi,From my point of view, this is getting a little old. I am a pilot and an aircraft technician who spent far too many nights welcoming incoming international flights at an airport in southern California.
I found this video at youtube which matters a strong misunderstanding between a english-native airport tower and a asian pilot.
1. yes, the Asian pilot could use some English lessons, but the controller failed to use standard international verbiage as agreed in ICAO manual 4444.
2. From personal experience, however, there are too many pilots who only know enough English to get into and out of US airspace. When it comes to an emergency, they are hard pressed to communicate. Too many times I have had to find a flight attendant to translate for me when I needed to speak to a pilot about problems with the aircraft.
Helios Airways Flight 522 crashed in 2005. The German pilot and the Greek first officer had to communicate in broken English (their only common language) with each other and with ATC. This was sited as a major contributing factor in the accident.
LyzTyphone (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-17 18:51:47
Lunombrulino: Helios Airways Flight 522 crashed in 2005. The German pilot and the Greek first officer had to communicate in broken English (their only common language) with each other and with ATC. This was sited as a major contributing factor in the accident.So there HAS been accident. Thank you for that piece of info and professional insight!
andogigi (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-18 01:32:14
Lunombrulino:This is incredibly interesting. I had no idea there was a standardized vocabulary. (Although, it makes a lot of sense) Any idea how many words are in the standard?
1. yes, the Asian pilot could use some English lessons, but the controller failed to use standard international verbiage as agreed in ICAO manual 4444.
Lunombrulino (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-18 17:13:51
andogigi:This is incredibly interesting. I had no idea there was a standardized vocabulary. (Although, it makes a lot of sense) Any idea how many words are in the standard?Google ICAO and 4444. You should be able to download the document as a PDF from somewhere in cyberspace. Look at Part X "Phraseologies."
If you're unable to find it, send me your email in a private message and I'll send you a copy.
qwertz (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-18 18:21:17
Lunombrulino:Thanks Lunombrulino for this hint. Could you take a look if I got the correct documents?
From my point of view, this is getting a little old. I am a pilot and an aircraft technician who spent far too many nights welcoming incoming international flights at an airport in southern California.
1. yes, the Asian pilot could use some English lessons, but the controller failed to use standard international verbiage as agreed in ICAO manual 4444.
I found this two documents. They are Adobe Flash protected means you can't not copy the content. But you can read and search it full text.
The current edition is the 15th Edition, 2007.
UnitedNations ICAO Doc 444 ATM/501 "Procedures for Air Navigation Services: Air Traffic Management"
DOC-4444 Fourteenth Edition - 2001
Doc-4444-Air-Traffic-Management Fourteenth Edition - 2001
These chapters seems to be interesting for this topic.
CHAPTER 12: PHRASEOLOGIES
(Page 8 table of contents)
old pdf editon (THIRTEENTH EDITION — 1996).
air traffic control (wikipedia)
Lunombrulino (Montri la profilon) 2010-februaro-18 19:50:32
qwertz:[This is the document to which i refered. Sent a pdf to you by private email.
Thanks Lunombrulino for this hint. Could you take a look if I got the correct documents?
I found this two documents. They are Adobe Flash protected means you can't not copy the content. But you can read and search it full text.
url=http://www.scribd.com/doc/6108873/DOC-4444]DOC-4444[/url] Fourteenth Edition - 2001
Doc-4444-Air-Traffic-Management Fourteenth Edition - 2001
These chapters seems to be interesting for this topic.
CHAPTER 12: PHRASEOLOGIES
qwertz (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-13 15:13:45
"...Language problems between Russian air traffic controllers and Polish pilots, and pressure from high-ranking plane passengers, may have contributed to the crash on Saturday in which 96 people – including the Polish president – were killed, it was revealed today.
The Russian air traffic controller Pavel Plusnin – who was the last person to talk to the crew of President Lech Kaczynski's Tupolev 154 before it crashed – said he had difficulties understanding the crew who he said spoke poor Russian.
"Numbers were hard for them so I could not determine their altitude," he told a Russian news portal..."
andogigi (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-13 18:44:37
ceigered (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-14 04:45:18
qwertz:[...]
andogigi:I can't believe that such a terrible thing could occur over a problem that could have been easily avoided. Such a sad and worthless tragedy!While it is a sad tragedy, I highly doubt the problem was all because they couldn't get their numbers in Russian right. After all, these are trained pilots, not people who are figuring out how to fly a plane for the first time.
Anyway, I'd be very hesitant to go blaming the language crisis and I'd be even more hesitant to go and say "Esperanto could have solved this situation" (not saying that you're saying it, I'm just putting it out there in general).
walfino (Montri la profilon) 2010-aprilo-14 07:27:14
Easy. Speak slower.