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We ought to stop talking about this...

de Roberto12, 18 decembrie 2010

Contribuții/Mesaje: 36

Limbă: English

sudanglo (Arată profil) 19 decembrie 2010, 12:17:40

Robert, I don't think ought is a diminutive of must. Rather the distinction lies in where the devo comes from.

When I use 'must' I am insisting on things from my point of view. When I use 'ought' (or have to) I am externalising the devo.

It is strange to say I must go but I won't. (this is self-contradictory)

Quite natural though to say I ought to go but I have decided not to.

And whilst 'have to' carries the idea of externally imposed necessity, 'ought' is more linked to the idea of moral obligation or debt and is something which you could ignore.

I think 'devus' will suffice in many cases for 'ought'.

sudanglo (Arată profil) 19 decembrie 2010, 12:31:04

Here's a Zamehofa example for your consideration.

"Mi devus forlasi vin en via malfeliĉo,” diris la vulpo, “sed mi kompatas vin kaj ankoraŭ unu fojon mi vin savos.

Miland (Arată profil) 19 decembrie 2010, 13:03:47

sudanglo:Here's a Zamehofa example..
What's the source?

Roberto12 (Arată profil) 19 decembrie 2010, 13:24:19

I'm not convinced.

sudanglo (Arată profil) 19 decembrie 2010, 13:27:02

One of the Grimm fabeloj, Miland. Serĉu Tekstaron.

sudanglo (Arată profil) 19 decembrie 2010, 13:29:12

Fair enough Robert. If you are not convinced let's hear your counter arguments.

Miland (Arată profil) 19 decembrie 2010, 14:04:53

sudanglo:One of the Grimm fabeloj, Miland. Serĉu Tekstaron.
Dankon, in that context devus appears to be used like "should". I came across one or two in the FK as well.

Roberto12 (Arată profil) 19 decembrie 2010, 14:22:08

sudanglo:Fair enough Robert. If you are not convinced let's hear your counter arguments.
Simply that whereas "ought" generally concerns moral obligations (of variable force), "must" also covers them. The concepts overlap a lot, and I think the diminutive relationship works.

Chainy (Arată profil) 19 decembrie 2010, 14:26:08

Roberto12:... and I think the diminutive relationship works.
I reckon you'll have a hard time trying to find anyone else using any forms of 'dev/et/i'.

Roberto12 (Arată profil) 19 decembrie 2010, 14:49:00

Chainy:
Roberto12:... and I think the diminutive relationship works.
I reckon you'll have a hard time trying to find anyone else using any forms of 'dev/et/i'.
I mean that it works logically; I wasn't talking about Esperanto usage in particular.

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