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We ought to stop talking about this...

от Roberto12, 18 декабря 2010 г.

Сообщений: 36

Язык: English

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 19 декабря 2010 г., 12:17:40

Robert, I don't think ought is a diminutive of must. Rather the distinction lies in where the devo comes from.

When I use 'must' I am insisting on things from my point of view. When I use 'ought' (or have to) I am externalising the devo.

It is strange to say I must go but I won't. (this is self-contradictory)

Quite natural though to say I ought to go but I have decided not to.

And whilst 'have to' carries the idea of externally imposed necessity, 'ought' is more linked to the idea of moral obligation or debt and is something which you could ignore.

I think 'devus' will suffice in many cases for 'ought'.

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 19 декабря 2010 г., 12:31:04

Here's a Zamehofa example for your consideration.

"Mi devus forlasi vin en via malfeliĉo,” diris la vulpo, “sed mi kompatas vin kaj ankoraŭ unu fojon mi vin savos.

Miland (Показать профиль) 19 декабря 2010 г., 13:03:47

sudanglo:Here's a Zamehofa example..
What's the source?

Roberto12 (Показать профиль) 19 декабря 2010 г., 13:24:19

I'm not convinced.

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 19 декабря 2010 г., 13:27:02

One of the Grimm fabeloj, Miland. Serĉu Tekstaron.

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 19 декабря 2010 г., 13:29:12

Fair enough Robert. If you are not convinced let's hear your counter arguments.

Miland (Показать профиль) 19 декабря 2010 г., 14:04:53

sudanglo:One of the Grimm fabeloj, Miland. Serĉu Tekstaron.
Dankon, in that context devus appears to be used like "should". I came across one or two in the FK as well.

Roberto12 (Показать профиль) 19 декабря 2010 г., 14:22:08

sudanglo:Fair enough Robert. If you are not convinced let's hear your counter arguments.
Simply that whereas "ought" generally concerns moral obligations (of variable force), "must" also covers them. The concepts overlap a lot, and I think the diminutive relationship works.

Chainy (Показать профиль) 19 декабря 2010 г., 14:26:08

Roberto12:... and I think the diminutive relationship works.
I reckon you'll have a hard time trying to find anyone else using any forms of 'dev/et/i'.

Roberto12 (Показать профиль) 19 декабря 2010 г., 14:49:00

Chainy:
Roberto12:... and I think the diminutive relationship works.
I reckon you'll have a hard time trying to find anyone else using any forms of 'dev/et/i'.
I mean that it works logically; I wasn't talking about Esperanto usage in particular.

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