Good morning, Prime Minister Kierkegaard.

Thank you for this roller-coaster ride which takes us directly from stoicism to judaeo-christian commentaries.

Jona estis indiĝeno de Gat-Ĥefer en Zebulun.

Perfect. Your choice of “indiĝeno” is a big and heavy word. I personally would use something more mundane: Jona naskis en Gat-Ĥefer en Zebulun.

Iuj personoj pensas, ke li estis samtempulo kaj disĉiplo de Elija, kaj tial li vivis ĉirkau 850 p.K.

100/100 again. I would omit the Oxford comma after Elija.

Li estas la plej aĝa de la profetoj, kies skriboj, kiun ni nune havas.

Now here something went haywire. “Kies skriboj what?” You are missing a verb or the “kiun” is too much. Your translation says “whose writings which we now have”.
What does “the oldest” mean here? Was Elijah 40 years old while the rest of the prophets were in their 30s? Then he would indeed be “la plej aĝa”.
Or does it mean that Elijah lived 350 BC while the rest of the prophets lived later? In that case it would be “la plej frua”.
The preposition after the superlative ought to be “el”. Cf Ekzercaro “unu el la plej belaj knabinoj”.

Ni povas scii, ke la libro estas historia per la atestoj de nia Sinjoro en Mateo 12:39-41 kaj Mateo 16:4.

Nice. I won’t attack the circulus in probando, because we are looking at your translation and not at the content of the translated text.

La rakonto prezentas tre trafan kontraston inter la pacienca kompato de Dio kaj la firma flegmo de bona viro pri la destino de granda nejuda urbo.

Does “striking” here really mean “trafa”?

Probable ĝi indikas la aŭroron de plej bona epoko, kiam la Elektata Popolo eniros tiu longdaŭra edukado, de kiu Paŭlo diras al ni la rezultoj en Efesanoj 2:19-22; Efesanoj 3:1-8.

Elektata Popolo or Elektita Popolo? Have the Jews already been chosen over the gentiles or is God chosing them every day anew?
Applicative verbs are transitive, hence: eniros tiun longdaŭran edukadon.
De kiu → kies
la rezultoj → kies rezultojn (direct object of diras)

Good job. Молодец. You started really well, observing your accusatives, but toward the end the grammar got a bit creative.

nornen:
Thank you for this roller-coaster ride which takes us directly from stoicism to judaeo-christian commentaries.

In fact I have found much of stoic thought to be compatible with, and complimentary to, Christian belief!

Not all, of course, but there's a lot of crossover.

nornen:Perfect. Your choice of “indiĝeno” is a big and heavy word. I personally would use something more mundane: Jona naskis en Gat-Ĥefer en Zebulun.

What do you mean exactly when you say it's a "big and heavy word"?

nornen:Now here something went haywire. “Kies skriboj what?” You are missing a verb or the “kiun” is too much. Your translation says “whose writings which we now have”.

Well here's the original text that we're translating:

"He is the oldest of the prophets whose writings have come down to us."

The phrase we're focused on is "whose writings have come down to us." I felt like this sounded idiomatic and if I translated it literally then it might not make sense to all people in all cultures. Did the writings literally pass from a higher, elevated position to a lower position?

Instead I translated it as "whose writings which we now have." That is to say, that unlike the fate of many ancient writings, these have not been lost to time. We have the book of Isaiah, the book of Ezekiel, the book of Ruth, the book of Jonah, and so on. They were written in ancient times but we still possess them now.

It seems you do not feel this is a sensible translation?

nornen:What does “the oldest” mean here? Was Elijah 40 years old while the rest of the prophets were in their 30s? Then he would indeed be “la plej aĝa”.
Or does it mean that Elijah lived 350 BC while the rest of the prophets lived later? In that case it would be “la plej frua”.
The preposition after the superlative ought to be “el”. Cf Ekzercaro “unu el la plej belaj knabinoj”.

Hmm. I guess I find the text somewhat ambiguous but I'm pretty sure the latter, that he operated in an earlier time.

nornen:Nice. I won’t attack the circulus in probando, because we are looking at your translation and not at the content of the translated text.

If you feel that you have reasonably authenticated Jesus's identity as the being that the Christians claim him to be, then you can accept any statements he makes as true. The question here is then: Do you feel that you have good reason to believe him to be God incarnate? Undoubtedly Meyer believed that he did and he was writing to an audience that believed the same.

nornen:Does “striking” here really mean “trafa”?

The vortaro here at Lernu defines trafa as "striking, to the point, on target." That seems consistent, or at least close, to me. That is, the story in question cuts through any nonsense to get to the heart of the matter. But perhaps I am misunderstanding the meaning of "trafa" based on that definition.

nornen:Have the Jews already been chosen over the gentiles or is God choosing them every day anew?

Undoubtedly in the eternal God's infinite foresight, the Jews were chosen before the foundation of the world. So they were chosen in the past, before they even existed. Within the scope of humanity's existence, though, it could be said that they were chosen when God called Abraham to be the father of a nation that would be God's people. But at the same time, today--and everyday for that matter--the Jews stand currently in a state of chosen-ness.

To use an analogy, the President of the United States is elected in November. That is an event that happens on a particular day ("Election Day"). But provided he is still within his term and a new president has not yet been elected, then the President is currently the elected president. He presently stands in a state of elected-ness.

So what do you think? Elektita or Elektata?

nornen:Applicative verbs are transitive, hence: eniros tiun longdaŭran edukadon.
De kiu → kies
la rezultoj → kies rezultojn (direct object of diras)

Can you explain that a little more? You lost me.

nornen:Good job. Молодец. You started really well, observing your accusatives, but toward the end the grammar got a bit creative.

I'll take it!

Hey, let's do another translation. I figure we'll keep up with the habit of picking some rather weighty texts, so this time I have the preamble to the US Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Ni la Popolo de Usono, por formi pli perfektan Union, establi Justecon, certigi enlandan Trankvilecon, provizi komunan Defendon, antaŭenigi ĝeneralan Bonstaton, kaj akiri la Benojn de Libereco al ni kaj niaj posteuloj, destinas kaj establas ĉi tiun Konstitucion por la Usono.

PrimeMinisterK:Hey, let's do another translation. I figure we'll keep up with the habit of picking some rather weighty texts, so this time I have the preamble to the US Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Ni la Popolo de Usono, por formi pli perfektan Union, establi Justecon, certigi enlandan Trankvilecon, provizi kumunan Defendon, antaŭenigi ĝeneralan Bonstaton, kaj akiri la Benojn de Libereco al ni kaj niaj posteuloj, destinas kaj establas ĉi tiun Kostitucion por la Usono.

Perfect. Just add an "N" to "Kostitucion" and a comma after "Ni". And "kumunan" should read "komunan".

nornen:Perfect. Just add an "N" to "Kostitucion" and a comma after "Ni". And "kumunan" should read "komunan".

Excellent! It's not a particularly complex sentence grammatically so I was hoping I didn't mess it up too badly. And translating it also made me wonder how many important national documents have been translated into Esperanto.

Also, I do have an -n on Konstitucion! It's Konstitucio + n. Am I missing something?

I left the comma off after "Ni" to conform to the original document. You think I should include it?

And yeah, my bad on Kumuna. That's a simple typo.

Thanks for the feedback as always.

PrimeMinisterK:Also, I do have an -n on Konstitucion! It's Konstitucio + n. Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing the N between the O and the S.

nornen:

PrimeMinisterK:Also, I do have an -n on Konstitucion! It's Konstitucio + n. Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing the N between the O and the S.

Oh, my bad. Another typo. I edited and fixed both.

By the way, going back to my comment about national documents, do you know of any national documents that have been translated into Esperanto in full? I think it would be cool to see the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution translated.

Have you heard of anyone translating their key national documents before?

A couple of other questions regarding my last translation for anyone who wants to answer them:

1. Do you think that "destini" is the best word for "ordain" in this case or might there be a better choice?

2. In the Preamble we both find "United States" and "United States of America." I used Usono in both cases. Is it possible to correctly use "Usono de Ameriko" for the latter case or is that simply wrong?

PrimeMinisterK:1. Do you think that "destini" is the best word for "ordain" in this case or might there be a better choice?

No effing idea. I don't quite understand the word "ordain". I thought one ordained priests.

PrimeMinisterK:2. In the Preamble we both find "United States" and "United States of America." I used Usono in both cases. Is it possible to correctly use "Usono de Ameriko" for the latter case or is that simply wrong?

I think Usono already includes "de Ameriko". You could spell it out: Unuiĝintaj Ŝtato de l' Ameriko, to make sure we are not talking about the Unuiĝintaj Ŝtatoj Meksikaj.

Have you heard of anyone translating their key national documents before?

No, I have not. But here goes my humble translation:

ALVOKANTE LA NOMON DE DIO

Ni, la reprezentantoj de la popolo de Gvatemalo, elektitaj libere kaj demokratie, kunigitaj en Asembleo Nacia Konstituanta, celante organizi leĝe kaj politike la Ŝtaton; asertante la superecon de la persono homa kiel subjekton kaj celon de l’ ordo socia; rekonante la familion kiel genezon unuan kaj fundamentan de la valoroj spiritaj kaj moralaj de la socio kaj, la Ŝtaton kiel responsan pri antaŭenigado de la bono komuna, de la firmigado de la regado de la leĝeco, sekureco, egaleco, libereco kaj paco; inspirate de l’ idealoj de niaj antaŭuloj kaj kolektante niajn tradiciojn kaj heredon kulturan; decidante impulsi plenan validon de la Rajtoj Homaj ene de ordo institucia firma, konstanta kaj popola, kie regatoj kaj regantoj agas laŭ absoluta obeo al la Juro,

SOLENE DEKRETAS, APROBAS KAJ PROMULGAS LA SEKVANTAN

KONSTITUCION POLITIKAN
DE LA REPUBLIKO DE GVATEMALO.

Jen la antaŭparolo de la konstitucio de mia denaska patrujo:

Vidalvide al la ruinaro, al kiu Ŝtat– kaj Sociordo sen Dio, sen Konscienco kaj sen Estimo al la Digno de la Homo la Transvivintojn de la dua Mondmilito gvidis, kun la firma Decido, al la venontaj germanaj Gentoj la Benojn de la Paco, de la Homeco kaj de la Juro daŭre certigi, donas al si la Bavara Popolo, memorante sian pli ol miljaran Historion, poststarantan demokratian Konstitucion.