글: 17
언어: English
bartlett22183 (프로필 보기) 2011년 5월 14일 오후 7:40:38
I appreciate all the responses. 
Sometimes it seems as if many of the discussions on these (and other) forums are tiny details about grammar and whatnot. In this instance I am trying to describe something about my daily life to someone with whom I share no other language than E-o. Dankon.
Paŭlo
Sometimes it seems as if many of the discussions on these (and other) forums are tiny details about grammar and whatnot. In this instance I am trying to describe something about my daily life to someone with whom I share no other language than E-o. Dankon.Paŭlo
sudanglo (프로필 보기) 2011년 5월 15일 오전 9:08:08
I not sure that I follow your argument Daniel. However, you may well have a good point and perhaps I haven't yet fully grasped the issues here.
You didn't object to 'Mi dankas vin, ke vi atente legis mian mesaĝon', and isn't that grammactically similar to 'Ŝi turmentis min, ke mi manĝigu ŝin'.
You wouldn't normally say 'Mi dankas al vi ion', but you could say 'Mi dankas vin pri io' as you could also say 'Ŝi turmentis min pri io.
It seems to me that sticking a 'por' in front of the 'ke' ascribes a layer of purpose or intentionality to the cat which is absent from 'La kato turmentis min pri tio, ke mi manĝigu ŝin'.
You didn't object to 'Mi dankas vin, ke vi atente legis mian mesaĝon', and isn't that grammactically similar to 'Ŝi turmentis min, ke mi manĝigu ŝin'.
You wouldn't normally say 'Mi dankas al vi ion', but you could say 'Mi dankas vin pri io' as you could also say 'Ŝi turmentis min pri io.
It seems to me that sticking a 'por' in front of the 'ke' ascribes a layer of purpose or intentionality to the cat which is absent from 'La kato turmentis min pri tio, ke mi manĝigu ŝin'.
henma (프로필 보기) 2011년 5월 15일 오후 4:04:20
sudanglo:You didn't object to 'Mi dankas vin, ke vi atente legis mian mesaĝon', and isn't that grammactically similar to 'Ŝi turmentis min, ke mi manĝigu ŝin'.You are right... I didn't notice it in that sentence.
I was looking for something else yesterday in PMEG (I needed to explain an interesting question of one of my lernantoj) and found in point 33.2.3 this:
Se la rolvorteto estas pri, oni normale forlasas ĝin (kaj la helpan tio)
and this:
Okaze oni forlasas ankaŭ por tio antaŭ ke-frazo ... Rimarku, ke la ĉefverbo ĉiam havas U-finaĵon en tiaj subfrazoj
So, using just ke, instead of "pri tio, ke" or "por tio, ke" is normal and accepted in the Esperato grammar.
The sentence originally posted is correct, then (except for the "fruaj matenoj" issue already explained).
Amike,
Daniel.