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Thanks for ?ing

de RiotNrrd, 23 de julho de 2007

Mensagens: 18

Idioma: English

RiotNrrd (Mostrar o perfil) 23 de julho de 2007 19:52:52

Last night a member of the forum sent me a thank-you in Esperanto for sending the address of my blog to him, and then added that, as he was relatively new to Esperanto, he hoped he had worded it correctly.

I didn't think he had, but it occurred to me that *I* didn't know the proper way of putting it in Esperanto either.

The English version is "Thanks for sending it to me". Dankon por ??? ĝin al mi. Sendanta? Sendi? Sendis?

I've always had difficulty with this particular sentence form (and therefore generally avoid it), so now I'm putting the question out there - how would one say it correctly?

mnlg (Mostrar o perfil) 23 de julho de 2007 23:50:16

RiotNrrd:The English version is "Thanks for sending it to me". Dankon por ??? ĝin al mi. Sendanta? Sendi? Sendis?
Dankon je tio ke vi sendis ĝin al mi.
Dankon je via sendo.

That's how I would phrase it.

Kwekubo (Mostrar o perfil) 24 de julho de 2007 00:23:28

I'd probably say "Dankon pro sendi la adreson" or "Dankon pro la sendo"/"Mi dankas la sendon".

Miland (Mostrar o perfil) 24 de julho de 2007 09:28:59

'Dankon pro sendi gxin al mi' may be OK.

mnlg (Mostrar o perfil) 24 de julho de 2007 10:50:31

黄鸡蛋:I don't think there can be an infinitive after "pro"...
It does sound odd. But there can be one after "por", and symmetry would require the same for "pro" ridulo.gif

Miland (Mostrar o perfil) 24 de julho de 2007 11:56:20

Section 114, remark 2 of the on line grammar does indicate that pro should be followed by a substantive, which would make 'pro sendi' an anglicism based on colloquial speech. The latter, however, in any language, always cuts corners. A full translation of the meaning might be 'Mi donas dankon al vi, cxar vi sendis gxin al mi', so that one possible 'contraction' in colloquial Esperanto might be 'Dankon sendi gxin al mi'. Popular usage will determine what is 'right' in the end, for colloquial speech.

mnlg (Mostrar o perfil) 24 de julho de 2007 13:01:21

As for Esperanto, I tend to be pretty conservative and I try not to stray from defined rules. However when something makes sense, provides elegance, and does not threaten the integrity of the language, then I can consider it. "Mi iras por manĝi" is accepted, so why shouldn't I say "Mi lacas pro labori"? It does sound weird and quite possibly I will never really use it (other ways to express the same concept come to my mind more naturally) but I see nothing inherently dangerous in that.

Kwekubo (Mostrar o perfil) 26 de julho de 2007 23:22:54

Terurĉjo:
Kwekubo:"Mi dankas la sendon".
Oni dankas personon aŭ pro io, sed ne sendon, kiu estas procedo.
To explain, I was thinking in my head "Mi dankas pro la sendo" and I simply contracted that by swapping the "pro" for an accusative.

erinja (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de julho de 2007 01:24:31

There are just a couple of prepositions that are commonly used with verbs, and por happens to be one of them. I have read that it is not necessarily wrong to use other prepositions before verbs (like "pro sendi") but that it might not be a good idea, because it could cause confusion since it is so rare.

I am conservative in some aspects of Esperanto and liberal in others but putting "pro" in front of a verb doesn't sound good to me and I wouldn't do it personally.

I guess the issue here is that Esperanto has so very few concrete and obligatory rules, that there are many aspects of grammar that have been established through common use or through simple supposition, "If the Fundamento does it that way, then that must be the right way". If the Fundamento didn't happen to use a word in a certain way, it doesn't mean that that use is wrong.

Having said that - if there is an existing way to say something that is also elegant, I prefer not to innovate. In a case like "Mi lacas pro labori", you could equally well say "Mi lacas pro laboro". You could easily say "Dankon pro la sendo" instead of "Dankon pro sendi". I guess my own feeling is that if there's a perfectly good version of something that is commonly used, I prefer to go with that rather than innovate something new - assuming that the thing that already exists is equally as elegant as the new thing, and equally clear and useful.

And although the English "Thank you for sending it to me" is simpler than "Dankon pro la sendo de gxi al mi" - there will always be some language on earth that can say a given sentence in a more elegant way than Esperanto can.

RiotNrrd (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de julho de 2007 06:09:08

Thanks for everyones help!

I've wondered for some time now if there was an Esperanto construction that directly mapped to the English form displayed in my example. I see now that there is not, and that the Esperanto phrasing requires a bit more conceptual rearrangement than a simple word for word mapping.

I do feel that the English style is a bit more elegant, as mentioned, but really that's neither here nor there. When in Esperantujo, do as the Esperantistoj do, after all. And since many Esperanto forms strike me as more elegant than the equivalent English forms, I suppose it's a fair trade-off if one or two don't.

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