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A snake!

by Hyperboreus, August 29, 2012

Messages: 23

Language: English

Hyperboreus (User's profile) August 29, 2012, 3:08:30 AM

Forigite

antoniomoya (User's profile) August 29, 2012, 5:07:04 AM

La ĝusta frazo estus:

"Johano vidis serpenton apud si"

Amike.

rakuten98le (User's profile) August 29, 2012, 8:30:35 AM

If you have more sentences, i.e in a passage then we will know... that 1st sentence will be just fine if the 'him' only refers to John... but your sentence in (a) is more accurate, and it can stand by itself as a sentence to show clearly that 'him' is John, with the -self ending. That's what I can see from my point of view XD
The same thing goes to the esperanto translation: "Johano vidis serpenton apud si" is more accurate and it clearly states that the snake is near John

Vestitor (User's profile) August 29, 2012, 9:34:50 AM

The reflexive pronoun is si in reference to the subject of the sentence. In English though 'himself' is not right in that particular sentence. Compare sentences like: 'John saw a truck approaching him' or 'John sensed someone standing behind him', '-self' is redundant. It's different than 'John looked at himself in the mirror', 'John made himself a sandwich' or 'John made a fool of himself'.

Simon Pure (User's profile) August 29, 2012, 9:46:22 AM

Hyperboreus:
a) Would "?John saw a snake near himself." also be correct?
I cannot say whether it is grammatically correct, but it is a sentence I would expect an English speaker to use. Adding self clarifies that 'him' refers to John and not another person.

N.B. English speakers will vary, greatly. (I don't wan't to start a debate over British/American English differences.)

sudanglo (User's profile) August 29, 2012, 10:42:17 AM

HB, you will find more hits in the Tekstaro for 'apud sia' than 'apud si'. But the number of hits for 'apud si' is not insignificant.

Within the rules of Esperanto there really is no choice if you want to avoid confusion as to whether the snake was near him or someone else.

Strict application of those rules means that there is an ambiguity in, for example, John and his friend went for a walk - Johano kaj lia amiko iris promeni. But you can avoid that by saying Johano promenis kun sia amiko.

Hyperboreus (User's profile) August 29, 2012, 3:14:27 PM

Forigite

sudanglo (User's profile) August 29, 2012, 5:52:21 PM

HB, for a snake near to John (the subject) it would definitely be John saw a snake near him.

John saw the ghost near her himself would be Johano mem vidis la fantomon apud ŝi.

Hyperboreus (User's profile) August 29, 2012, 6:52:04 PM

Forigite

darkweasel (User's profile) August 29, 2012, 7:03:21 PM

Hyperboreus:
Am I also correct with this assumption:
"John saw a snake near him." (the snake being near John and not near somebody else)
would be in Esperanto
"Johano vidis serpenton apud si."
yes.

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