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Hi, I'm new, or "Ack! Help!"

by tophat, May 6, 2006

Messages: 14

Language: English

tophat (User's profile) May 6, 2006, 7:45:05 PM

Okay, so.. two quick questions: would it be "Mi estas lernas Esperanton", or "Mi lernas Esperanton", assuming that's the proper word for "learn"? Is there any word for "I'm"? The other qestion I wanted to ask was does anybody have any tips on how to pronounce an Esperanto [e.g. tapped] R? I understand that a lot of native english speakers pronounce the t's in words like butter, as tapped d's, but I can't seem to do this with an R. (Non-Esperanto question: How about trilled R's? I'm learning a bit of Spanish while also learning Esperanto. ridulo.gif )

mgayoub (User's profile) May 15, 2006, 2:24:31 PM

"Mi estas lernas Esperanton" is not correct; "Mi lernas Esperanton" is. The latter can be translated as "I learn Esperanto" or "I am learning Esperanto"; though Esperanto does have forms to more accurately represent the second translation, they are rarely used, and this simple present tense forms (-as) are usually used. Teach Yourself Esperanto says this:

"Continous tense - Although there is a form in Esperanto similar to the English 'am --ing', it is little used, and the ending -as is generally used to translate both the simple and continous tenses ... In translating from Esperanto into English, either of the English forms is used, according to the context."

"Mi parolas Esperante"?

Well, -e is the adverbial ending, but that's really, err, odd. I guess it could be translated as "I speak Esperantoly", id est, "I speak the Esperanto way", but it's still really odd. I would say "Mi parolas Esperanton".

william (User's profile) May 23, 2006, 8:59:22 AM

"Mi parolas Esperante" i think means I speak IN Esperanto since it is an adverb.

paloh (User's profile) June 30, 2006, 4:53:51 PM

I am probably little late but just in case somebody still cares I'd complete the mgayoub's answer. "I am learning Esperanto" can be translated as "Mi estas lernanta Esperanton". As correctly pointed out, the continuous present tense ("estas" + present active participle) is seldom used, only when talking about "this moment action". So, if you learn Esperanto these days, you say "Mi lernas Esperanton". When you are sitting with the textbook in your hands - you are learning at this moment - you can say "mi estas lernanta ..."

There exist also future active participle (root+"onta") and past active participle (root+"inta"), so you can do really lot of neat tricks:
I was learning - Mi estis lernanta
I will be learning - Mi estos lernanta
I had just finished learning - Mi estis lerninta
I was about to be learning - Mi estis lernonta
etc...

scottish_chic (User's profile) September 14, 2006, 5:00:34 PM

The other qestion I wanted to ask was does anybody have any tips on how to pronounce an Esperanto [e.g. tapped] R? I understand that a lot of native english speakers pronounce the t's in words like butter, as tapped d's, but I can't seem to do this with an R.
The best way to learn how to tap your 'r' is to put on a [stereotype] Scottish accent (like Willie out the Simpsons) and say something like
'The weather is warm and Im raving about rabbits' (pronounced 'the withur iz vaurm an Am ravin aboot rabbits', but obviously with a strong accent and 'r' roll.)

But never try it in front of an actual Scottish person lol.

Hope I helped rideto.gif

T0dd (User's profile) September 15, 2006, 1:08:20 AM

Note that Esperanto is the only language that you would normally refer to in this way, with a simple noun. That's owing to the historical fluke that the name of the language, Esperanto, was simply borrowed from Zamenhof's pseudonym, Dr. Esperanto.

If you want to say "I speak English," for example, you would say "Mi parolas la anglan." You certainly wouldn't say "Mi parolas anglon," since "anglo," the noun, refers to an ethnically English person. Saying "Mi parolas angle," suggests, as others have pointed out, that you are speaking English at the moment. You could, of course, say "Mi povas paroli angle," to make the point clear.

This use of an adjective without a noun, in "Mi parolas la anglan" should be understood as a sentence with an implied but omitted noun. "Mi parolas la anglan [lingvon]." It's also used in cases where, in English, we'd say "one." "Mi preferas la bluan." (I prefer the blue one)

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, however, "Mi parolas la esperantan," but I guess it's possible.

T0dd (User's profile) September 15, 2006, 6:24:14 PM

Novico Dektri:My knwledge of the language has sufficiently improved, though some of my foundation and noun-learning is a bit shaky.

However, one quick question. Could someone confirm that my translation of the following sentence is correct?

Angle: "Look- your pronounciation is as good as hers."

Esperante: "Jen- via elparolo estas tiel bona kiel la sxia."

Espereble tiu traduko ests korekta, sed mi ofte eraregas.
Yes, that's fine, but it touches on a semantic controversy. There are people who would say "Via elparolo estas tiom bona, kiom la ŝia." The controversy centers on whether it's acceptable to use the -iom correlatives to talk about degrees of some property, rather than just amounts of substances. The -iom usage is on the increase, mainly because the use of "iom" itself to talk about degrees has been around for a long time. "Mi estas iom malsata" etc. So, while your translation is completely okay, and is "preferred" by many, you may encounter the other usage as well.

erinja (User's profile) September 15, 2006, 7:51:10 PM

T0dd:
Yes, that's fine, but it touches on a semantic controversy. There are people who would say "Via elparolo estas tiom bona, kiom la ŝia." The controversy centers on whether it's acceptable to use the -iom correlatives to talk about degrees of some property, rather than just amounts of substances. The -iom usage is on the increase, mainly because the use of "iom" itself to talk about degrees has been around for a long time. "Mi estas iom malsata" etc. So, while your translation is completely okay, and is "preferred" by many, you may encounter the other usage as well.
Bertilo suggests in the PMEG that the tiel-kiel combination is preferable, and that the tiom-kiom combination should only be used in cases where you want to add strong emphasis. It's just his opinion of course, but it's a nice way to add nuance to your speech through your choice of one combination or the other.

So basically, Bertilo would suggest that "Via elparolo estas tiel bona, kiel la sxia" for usual cases, but "Via elparolo estas tiom bona kiom la sxia" would be strongly emphasized - probably it would mean that her pronunciation is wonderful, and yours is just as wonderful as hers.

erinja (User's profile) September 15, 2006, 7:53:53 PM

T0dd:Note that Esperanto is the only language that you would normally refer to in this way, with a simple noun. That's owing to the historical fluke that the name of the language, Esperanto, was simply borrowed from Zamenhof's pseudonym, Dr. Esperanto.
This is not quite true. The -o ending is used for languages that don't have an ethnic or national group associated with them. Practically speaking, most other constructed languages use the -o ending (Volapuko, Ido). For something like Klingon - even though it's constructed, it has an ethnic group associated with it (albeit a group that doesn't really exist), so it's "la klingona". Some people hold the opinion that some dead languages should get the -o ending too - so "latino" and "sanskrito". But some other people prefer to use "la latina" and "la sanskrita", since these languages once had ethnic groups associated with them, even though they no longer do.

T0dd (User's profile) September 16, 2006, 2:52:35 AM

Although I'm not a huge fan of Ido, I do like the Ido suffix -ez, meaning language, which enables the formation of language names readily: anglezo, francezo ktp. In Esperanto, it seems we end up talking about language quite often, and it makes sense to have a handy suffix.

Indeed, some have tried to import -ez into Esperanto, apparently without much success. Out of curiosity, I googled "anglezo" and found this interesting web site: Anglezo kaj Esperanto. It's interesting in that it's written in NHA, the unofficial "Nova HelpAlfabeto", and, of course, it features the word "anglezo"!

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