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Can pronouns be turned into adverbs?

by MiMalamasLaAnglan, January 25, 2018

Messages: 9

Language: English

MiMalamasLaAnglan (User's profile) January 25, 2018, 10:50:13 PM

Why can't mie, vie, lie, ŝie, ĝie, nie, ilie, onie, sie, cie, etc. be used as a dative (or some other) case? For example: Mi donas aferon vie (I give you something). My understanding is that turning a noun into an adverb can be used as a dative case, so why not do the same with pronouns?

sergejm (User's profile) January 26, 2018, 12:57:29 AM

The dative is 'Mi donas al vi ...' ('I give (to) you ...' ). In English, you can omit 'to' in this case, but it is an English specific.
'Mi donas vie ...' means 'Mi donas kiel vi ...' ('I give as you ...')
The same is with nouns: 'Mi donas patre ...' means 'I give as father ...', but 'Mi donas hejme ...' means 'I give at home ...' etc.
Never dative!
Even in 'Mi iras hejmen' = 'I go (to) home' - 'to' is not dative here, but direction.

Metsis (User's profile) January 26, 2018, 8:56:09 AM

Se vi volas esti preciza, la kazo, kiu montras "movon en certan direkton", nomiĝas ilativo, sed en ĉi tiu okazo oni uzas en la angla prepocizian esprimon kaj E-o akuzativan esprimon de adverbo.

Ĉiukaze sergejm pravas. La adverboj esprimas "kiel maniere", do la adverbaj formoj de personaj pronomoj esprimas: mi donas vie = mi donas kiel vi ("I give as if I were you/in your way"). Teorie eblas, sed ne uzata en praktiko.

murakvo (User's profile) December 28, 2018, 7:55:23 AM

I believe you can, I've seen it a few times and I certainly think it's logical and easy to understand. It would then be:

mien / mion = to me
mie = like me, at me, in me (or whatever, based on context)
mio = mi

You can also use (and people do use) prepositions this way: "ale" instead of "al" etc.

amigueo (User's profile) December 28, 2018, 11:28:33 AM

1/ nur fantazio:
mir = al mi

2/ "mie" rilatas al "tiue" kaj "tiuje" kaj "kelkaje" kaj 'iuje"
eble, iujo = iuj

amigueo (User's profile) December 28, 2018, 11:36:50 AM

mio = mi (?)
do
mieco kaj miaeco
aŭ mioeco (?)

ni bezonas ordon pri prioritatoj, analogie al matematikaj simboloj, por eviti parentezojn aŭ parentezojon

kvalito de esti mi = mieco (?)
kvalito de esti mia = miaeco (?)

mi memoras: "unueco" kaj "unuaeco"
la facilo de -a produktas malfacilon de miaeco.
facilo kreas malfacilon, domaĝe.

MiMalamasLaAnglan (User's profile) December 31, 2018, 4:52:01 PM

I guess I was wrong to say "mie". I should have said "mien".

sergejm (User's profile) December 31, 2018, 5:12:33 PM

'mie' signifas 'kiel mi volas'.
'mio' signifas 'ego' (la sento de memestimo aŭ mem-graveco), 'alia mio' = 'alter ego' (en multaj nunaj lingvoj estas ĉi tiaj latinaj esprimoj)

Metsis (User's profile) January 2, 2019, 8:57:13 AM

Adverbs answer the question "how", like rapidly (rapide), gladly (gaje), in my way (miamaniere) etc. Suppose we form an adverb from a word with noun-character (see vortfarado), for instance domo → dome. What would that word mean? In a housy (?) way, house-wise? No, there is no general rule, that would permit any noun to be turned into an adverb. Every adjective-characteristic word can be turned into an adverb (see rapide and gaje above), but only some with noun-character (maniere). I would hesitate to turn pronouns into adverbs, since they would certainly not be clear immediately.

Just my...

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