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Who knocketh without

de Hyperboreus, 2012-aprilo-05

Mesaĝoj: 13

Lingvo: English

Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-aprilo-05 16:44:05

Forigite

ludomastro (Montri la profilon) 2012-aprilo-05 18:38:53

For some meanings, yes, "without" could be considered as "ekstere."

But even then, it is simply an odd phrase to me.

Bruso (Montri la profilon) 2012-aprilo-05 19:15:05

ludomastro:For some meanings, yes, "without" could be considered as "ekstere."

But even then, it is simply an odd phrase to me.
It's an archaism. Probably few English-speakers would use or even understand it in that sense these days.

(That's why it's humorous in the play.)

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-aprilo-05 19:27:16

'Without' may be archaic in the sense of ekstere, but 'within' in the sense of interne de is modern English.

Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-aprilo-05 23:39:18

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vejktoro (Montri la profilon) 2012-aprilo-05 23:50:22

Hyperboreus:OK, then indeed the joke of these lines is something like:

- "Kio frapas ekstere?"
= "Sen kio?"
- "Ekstere de la pordo"

Or did I get it wrong?
"Who's knocking outside?"
"Without what?"
"Without the door."
.......

Hahaha

vejktoro (Montri la profilon) 2012-aprilo-06 00:00:33

If you use the verb in its simple form it is silly but understandable...
in a the-author-tries-to-sound-Shakespearian-but-not-so-smart kinda way.

"Stay in for it storms without."

"Who knocks outside?" sounds stranger then "who is knocking outside."
So the reader already knows the author is being silly by the time we get to "without"

Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-aprilo-06 00:09:09

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RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2012-aprilo-06 01:04:16

The whole thing hinges on the fact that "without" can mean both "ekstere" and "sen", and is constructed so that it can be sensibly read here either way. As was mentioned, using "knocketh", because it sounds archaic, serves to soften (or even hide, in a way) the fact that using "without" to mean "ekstere" - the core of the joke - also sounds archaic.

The joke is very well constructed. But that's how Pratchett rolls.

Donniedillon (Montri la profilon) 2012-aprilo-06 02:56:20

The joke is very well constructed. But that's how Pratchett rolls.
Right on. Love me some Pratchett ridulo.gif

I think that puns are extremely difficult to translate well. They rely on rhymes and double meanings of words which when translated may no longer rhyme or have double meanings. They are very language specific jokes. This is why so much humor is "lost in translation", which a a bit of a pun itself.

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