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Who knocketh without

Hyperboreus,2012年4月5日の

メッセージ: 13

言語: English

Hyperboreus (プロフィールを表示) 2012年4月5日 16:44:05

Forigite

ludomastro (プロフィールを表示) 2012年4月5日 18:38:53

For some meanings, yes, "without" could be considered as "ekstere."

But even then, it is simply an odd phrase to me.

Bruso (プロフィールを表示) 2012年4月5日 19:15:05

ludomastro:For some meanings, yes, "without" could be considered as "ekstere."

But even then, it is simply an odd phrase to me.
It's an archaism. Probably few English-speakers would use or even understand it in that sense these days.

(That's why it's humorous in the play.)

sudanglo (プロフィールを表示) 2012年4月5日 19:27:16

'Without' may be archaic in the sense of ekstere, but 'within' in the sense of interne de is modern English.

Hyperboreus (プロフィールを表示) 2012年4月5日 23:39:18

Forigite

vejktoro (プロフィールを表示) 2012年4月5日 23:50:22

Hyperboreus:OK, then indeed the joke of these lines is something like:

- "Kio frapas ekstere?"
= "Sen kio?"
- "Ekstere de la pordo"

Or did I get it wrong?
"Who's knocking outside?"
"Without what?"
"Without the door."
.......

Hahaha

vejktoro (プロフィールを表示) 2012年4月6日 0:00:33

If you use the verb in its simple form it is silly but understandable...
in a the-author-tries-to-sound-Shakespearian-but-not-so-smart kinda way.

"Stay in for it storms without."

"Who knocks outside?" sounds stranger then "who is knocking outside."
So the reader already knows the author is being silly by the time we get to "without"

Hyperboreus (プロフィールを表示) 2012年4月6日 0:09:09

Forigite

RiotNrrd (プロフィールを表示) 2012年4月6日 1:04:16

The whole thing hinges on the fact that "without" can mean both "ekstere" and "sen", and is constructed so that it can be sensibly read here either way. As was mentioned, using "knocketh", because it sounds archaic, serves to soften (or even hide, in a way) the fact that using "without" to mean "ekstere" - the core of the joke - also sounds archaic.

The joke is very well constructed. But that's how Pratchett rolls.

Donniedillon (プロフィールを表示) 2012年4月6日 2:56:20

The joke is very well constructed. But that's how Pratchett rolls.
Right on. Love me some Pratchett ridulo.gif

I think that puns are extremely difficult to translate well. They rely on rhymes and double meanings of words which when translated may no longer rhyme or have double meanings. They are very language specific jokes. This is why so much humor is "lost in translation", which a a bit of a pun itself.

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