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Who knocketh without

Hyperboreus :lta, 5. huhtikuuta 2012

Viestejä: 13

Kieli: English

Hyperboreus (Näytä profiilli) 5. huhtikuuta 2012 16.44.05

Forigite

ludomastro (Näytä profiilli) 5. huhtikuuta 2012 18.38.53

For some meanings, yes, "without" could be considered as "ekstere."

But even then, it is simply an odd phrase to me.

Bruso (Näytä profiilli) 5. huhtikuuta 2012 19.15.05

ludomastro:For some meanings, yes, "without" could be considered as "ekstere."

But even then, it is simply an odd phrase to me.
It's an archaism. Probably few English-speakers would use or even understand it in that sense these days.

(That's why it's humorous in the play.)

sudanglo (Näytä profiilli) 5. huhtikuuta 2012 19.27.16

'Without' may be archaic in the sense of ekstere, but 'within' in the sense of interne de is modern English.

Hyperboreus (Näytä profiilli) 5. huhtikuuta 2012 23.39.18

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vejktoro (Näytä profiilli) 5. huhtikuuta 2012 23.50.22

Hyperboreus:OK, then indeed the joke of these lines is something like:

- "Kio frapas ekstere?"
= "Sen kio?"
- "Ekstere de la pordo"

Or did I get it wrong?
"Who's knocking outside?"
"Without what?"
"Without the door."
.......

Hahaha

vejktoro (Näytä profiilli) 6. huhtikuuta 2012 0.00.33

If you use the verb in its simple form it is silly but understandable...
in a the-author-tries-to-sound-Shakespearian-but-not-so-smart kinda way.

"Stay in for it storms without."

"Who knocks outside?" sounds stranger then "who is knocking outside."
So the reader already knows the author is being silly by the time we get to "without"

Hyperboreus (Näytä profiilli) 6. huhtikuuta 2012 0.09.09

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RiotNrrd (Näytä profiilli) 6. huhtikuuta 2012 1.04.16

The whole thing hinges on the fact that "without" can mean both "ekstere" and "sen", and is constructed so that it can be sensibly read here either way. As was mentioned, using "knocketh", because it sounds archaic, serves to soften (or even hide, in a way) the fact that using "without" to mean "ekstere" - the core of the joke - also sounds archaic.

The joke is very well constructed. But that's how Pratchett rolls.

Donniedillon (Näytä profiilli) 6. huhtikuuta 2012 2.56.20

The joke is very well constructed. But that's how Pratchett rolls.
Right on. Love me some Pratchett ridulo.gif

I think that puns are extremely difficult to translate well. They rely on rhymes and double meanings of words which when translated may no longer rhyme or have double meanings. They are very language specific jokes. This is why so much humor is "lost in translation", which a a bit of a pun itself.

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