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Who knocketh without

貼文者: Hyperboreus, 2012年4月5日

訊息: 13

語言: English

Hyperboreus (顯示個人資料) 2012年4月5日下午4:44:05

Forigite

ludomastro (顯示個人資料) 2012年4月5日下午6:38:53

For some meanings, yes, "without" could be considered as "ekstere."

But even then, it is simply an odd phrase to me.

Bruso (顯示個人資料) 2012年4月5日下午7:15:05

ludomastro:For some meanings, yes, "without" could be considered as "ekstere."

But even then, it is simply an odd phrase to me.
It's an archaism. Probably few English-speakers would use or even understand it in that sense these days.

(That's why it's humorous in the play.)

sudanglo (顯示個人資料) 2012年4月5日下午7:27:16

'Without' may be archaic in the sense of ekstere, but 'within' in the sense of interne de is modern English.

Hyperboreus (顯示個人資料) 2012年4月5日下午11:39:18

Forigite

vejktoro (顯示個人資料) 2012年4月5日下午11:50:22

Hyperboreus:OK, then indeed the joke of these lines is something like:

- "Kio frapas ekstere?"
= "Sen kio?"
- "Ekstere de la pordo"

Or did I get it wrong?
"Who's knocking outside?"
"Without what?"
"Without the door."
.......

Hahaha

vejktoro (顯示個人資料) 2012年4月6日上午12:00:33

If you use the verb in its simple form it is silly but understandable...
in a the-author-tries-to-sound-Shakespearian-but-not-so-smart kinda way.

"Stay in for it storms without."

"Who knocks outside?" sounds stranger then "who is knocking outside."
So the reader already knows the author is being silly by the time we get to "without"

Hyperboreus (顯示個人資料) 2012年4月6日上午12:09:09

Forigite

RiotNrrd (顯示個人資料) 2012年4月6日上午1:04:16

The whole thing hinges on the fact that "without" can mean both "ekstere" and "sen", and is constructed so that it can be sensibly read here either way. As was mentioned, using "knocketh", because it sounds archaic, serves to soften (or even hide, in a way) the fact that using "without" to mean "ekstere" - the core of the joke - also sounds archaic.

The joke is very well constructed. But that's how Pratchett rolls.

Donniedillon (顯示個人資料) 2012年4月6日上午2:56:20

The joke is very well constructed. But that's how Pratchett rolls.
Right on. Love me some Pratchett ridulo.gif

I think that puns are extremely difficult to translate well. They rely on rhymes and double meanings of words which when translated may no longer rhyme or have double meanings. They are very language specific jokes. This is why so much humor is "lost in translation", which a a bit of a pun itself.

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